Episode Transcript
Hello, my name is Aziz and I'm the son of a divorced mother. She is really my superhero.
That's why it's important for me to support women to share their uniqueness, their perspectives,
personalities, and emotions about this world. In these difficult times in human history,
we need to bring the people of the world together. And when we hear the voices of women, when
we listen to real lives of women from other countries, we connect our cultures without
differences or stereotypes and we get inspired by their stories to live a better life. That's
what this podcast is all about. My guest today is Shabnam Mamadnazar Bekova. Shabnam is from
Horog, Tajikistan, currently studying at American University of Central Asia in Kyrgyzstan at
the psychology department and working for an insurance company online. When she is not
very busy, her hobbies are doing sports and socializing. Shabnam, how are you today? Thank
you, Aziz. I'm good. How are you? I'm feeling positive. I'm feeling absolutely grateful
to be alive and very curious about you as a person. So I'll begin with this nice first
question. Shabnam, if your friends and the people who know you best could describe who
you are and your personality, what would they say about you?
Okay, so what would they say is that they might say that I am hardworking and I am a
caring person mostly. So I'm a good listener for my friends, always supporting, caring
and a hard worker. So throughout my life, I have been achieving everything on my own,
trying to do my best every time. And yes, these are the three main adjectives, I would
say, that could describe me very well, I think. And most of my friends would agree with that.
Thank you. That's really interesting. And since you study psychology, a lot of people
who are so caring, so giving, often have heartbreak and get vexed because they don't get appreciated
enough by people or people disappoint them or they get betrayed or heartbroken. Is this
like the story of your life? Is this something you can relate to? Or do you know how to choose
the right people to be caring towards so it's not an issue you're facing?
To be honest, that was the case with me as well, because we don't know, we cannot actually
read people, right? And there was a case that I was also kind of betrayed. And this happened
to me, but life is going on. And if you just stop everything and isolate yourself that
won't help, you can just make decisions, take out of that situation, the best part or take
a lesson out of it, and then continue on doing your job and your studies. And just like,
there was a time when I thought that, okay, so if this person did that, then maybe everyone
does that. But then my department and psychology helped me to realize that that's not the case
and not all people are the same. And you cannot expect everyone to be as you are. So every
person has his own personality, own thoughts, and anything as specific and special about
himself. So you cannot, it's just you who are thinking of them something. And if that
doesn't happen, that doesn't mean that the person is bad, or it's just you who are thinking
this that way. So I would say that such kind of people might be, maybe everyone faces that
or maybe not, maybe some people know whom to choose and how to choose people whom they
want to be close to. But if that happens also to people, so I don't think that people should
be kind of think that everyone is bad or everyone might do that. So not everyone is the same.
So there are bad people, but there are good people as well. And good people are more than
bad. So it's just going through the situation.
Thank you, Shabnam. And I'm really curious about your choice to study psychology. In
my experience, actually, most people who study psychology, it's for themselves to heal their
own traumas, to understand themselves better, and secondarily, to understand other people
and to help others. But as they say, charity begins at home or you begin with yourself
first. Is this your experience or what's the story of you choosing specifically to study
psychology?
Oh, so why did I choose psychology? It was not my first choice and it was not the thing
I wanted to do the most. Actually, I wanted to be a doctor. I wanted to be a neurologist.
And I have applied for the Aga Khan University in Karachi, Pakistan. If you have heard about
that or if you know, I wanted to study there. But unfortunately, I couldn't get there. So
and I failed. And AUSA was the other choice that I had while being a graduate student
at school. I was applying to several universities, but I wanted to do medicine. I wanted to be
a doctor, but unfortunately, I couldn't get there. So I thought that psychology is somehow
connected to medicine as well, if you become a psychiatrist. And I was like, this was something
closer to medicine and closer to my heart. So I decided to go there. And I am very happy
that I chose this department because it helped me to, of course, start with myself first,
starting from my house and from myself and then going to other people and understanding
other people as well. That's the story behind my psychology department.
Thank you. That's so interesting. And to ask you, since you're someone who's very caring,
who loves helping people, are you an empath? Can you feel people's energy and emotions
deeply? You feel their pain and that's why you want to release it and to care for them
and help them? Or is this not the way you are? You don't have that deep, sensitive,
empath energy, but it's something else. Actually, I'm very empathetic and emotional
and that's why it's like a very important for me to listen to someone's story or not
even a story, but any situation that happens to my friends, to people I know, and even
to people I don't know, sometimes it happens that random people come to me and we like
in a minute or two, we can get into a very long conversation and I can tell my whole
story or the person can tell me everything. So it's like, I'm very emotional and empathetic
person. And I feel, I don't know, like, but I can feel people's emotion and I feel that
I need, like, if I can do something, then I have to help. I have to not even like, maybe
not something very valuable or very much influential, but a small thing that I can do for a person,
I will definitely. Thank you. I would love to discuss that.
But first I'm thinking you wanted to become a doctor, a surgeon, dealing with people and
cutting them open and all that stuff. And usually impasse cannot really deal with that
because any pain any other person feels, you feel it in your body. If someone like you
cut them, you feel it's the same part of your body being cut. So how did you choose or decide
to become a surgeon in that way, knowing or is it that you can watch horror movies and
watch people operating on TV or in documentaries and you can deal with that? Or how does it
go? Never. You know, like horrors are movies that
I have never watched. Like absolutely never. I'm 22 and I don't know any horror movie.
So I am very sensitive person. And when I wanted to, so while being a school girl, I
want, I was like very passionate about medicine and about new neuroscience. And my aunt is
a doctor. So she told me that you have to know that with this, you're being so much
empathetic and sensitive and emotional. You cannot be a doctor. And if you will choose
to be a doctor for the future, then you have to do something with that, or you don't have
to be a doctor. And I was like, that was a kind of dilemma for me, but things happened
as they happen. So I didn't get there, but if I would be a doctor, I don't know, maybe
I would have worked with a psychologist or with someone who could, who could make me
feel okay about that, about the pain that I'm giving other people. I don't know. Like,
because unfortunately I couldn't get there. I understand you're very brave. If you got
there, you would have had like for every one operation, 10 hours of psychological therapy.
And it would be very hard. I agree. And you spoke about how you love deep conversations.
Some people tell you everything they can open up to you, et cetera. What is your most, like
the most interesting thing you find about people? Is it you love their stories and experiences
of overcoming struggles and that inspires you to overcome your own life challenges?
Is it just the vibe and the energy when you speak with them and you feel that deep bond
and connection and the right vibration and chemistry, like you are in union with all
their humanity or what is it about people and the experience of deep conversation that
is truly nourishing to your soul? So you're right. Like it depends actually,
it depends on the, on the situation, on the person and on many different things. But as
you mentioned, so I always get inspired by people's stories because we all have different
lives and different experiences. And it's always very interesting to hear about how
people are going through different challenges, how they are facing issues and are they overcoming
it or are they giving up? So actually I started this when I was a schoolgirl. So I guess it
was nine or 10th grade when I went to global encounters camp. That's an international camp
where the students from 40 countries, I guess, or more come together, share stories, experience.
And starting from that time, I was very, I became more and more interested about it,
about people's stories and people's life, but it's all also about the vibe as well.
So it's not always that I'm talking to people just about their experience. It can be just
a random topic or just the vibe that positivity or something that would keep up the conversation
and it goes on. Thank you very, very much. And to understand
more about your culture, who you are as a person, as a girl in 2023, what do you feel
is your culture or what shaped you? Do you think we live in a very connected world where
you are a mix between your own culture and Hollywood in the US and maybe some French
culture and K-pop from Korea and anime from Japan and you're a new mix, totally different
to your parents? Or are you more like 80% traditional, 20% modern? Or how would you
describe yourself in 2023? Okay, so in 2023, being a 22 years old girl,
I would describe myself as mostly as traditional because some things like K-pop and anime are
things that I don't really like at all. I know that it is very popular nowadays and
I can, the problem with me is that I can just understand, like maybe I don't know much
about their culture or something specific about them and that's why I'm not interested
in that. But I can say that I don't like it, like no interest in that, but I'm more of
a traditional person because the place where I grew up in Horog, so we have our own traditions
and our own culture and specific things about us that I love them, like our food, our dances,
our songs, everything about us. And of course I love the culture of other people. It's always
interesting for me to discover, but still my heart is always with mine. But so I can
say that yes, I'm more of a cultural person, but I can say that it's maybe 60% of me is
more cultural and 40% is more modern. That's how I would say maybe at this point.
Thank you. That's super interesting. And as a traditional girl who's very connected to
her culture, how was it to go from Horog to begin a new life in Kyrgyzstan? How was making
new friends, meeting new people? Do you feel the cultures are very, very similar? So the
adaptation was not really necessary or did you have some adaptation? Did you find it
difficult at first to create those new relationships? And what's your advice for any girls or women
who need to go abroad for university in order to make a lot of friends and not feel disconnected
and alone abroad? So my first experience of visiting Kyrgyzstan
was actually not the best one. In the beginning, I was disappointed because I don't know how
that happened, but I met people who were not very happy to have me as a citizen of Kyrgyzstan
in their country. So there was a kind of a negative attitude toward our nation. So that's
why it was a bit complicated at the beginning. And I was very sad and unhappy about that.
I thought that, okay, so these four years will be, and I don't know, like, I don't know
how would I graduate and if I would graduate. So I was like, at that time, at that point,
I was dramatizing and exaggerating everything. I thought that so, okay, they don't like us,
so they will never treat us well. And I will be, these four years will be the worst years,
I guess. So, and then, so as I said in the very beginning, not everyone, not every person
is bad and not everyone are good. So there are bad people, but there are good people
as well. And good people are more than bad. So this is what I have learned from life.
And when I came to the university, it's a, we have a diverse university. So there are
different people from different countries, different culture, and the culture of Kyrgyz
people, I like their culture. It is not similar to ours. It is a bit different, but still
I liked it. And the people, I have friends, I have many Kyrgyz friends who are very caring
and they are very help, they helped me a lot in different situations. And I'm grateful
to my friends and I'm still in touch with them. And what I would have advice for girls
who are going to, going abroad. So when you are going abroad and away from home at the
first time, it's always a kind of a fear. You don't know what to expect from the country
and you don't know what to expect from the people, but it is, I guess it's more easier
to overcome all the, all the issues and all the challenges when you are keeping, you try
to keep being positive and optimistic. Like not going very deep into some, something that
was said to you or something that was done because everything might happen in life and
you never know, you can never predict what can happen to you. So it's just, you go into
the situation, you, you make the most out of it. And of course you will be happy while
overcoming and learning something. Every experience is learning something new. So while learning
more and more new things, you get more and more educated and more and more experience.
And that will happen. That will help greatly. So I would have to say that, you know, fearing
is okay. Being disappointed is okay. And not always feeling positive is also okay, but
you have to give yourself time. If you feel that that is something important or you want
to do, and you feel that that's something valuable, valuable you want to do, then give
yourself time. Think of that, make decisions and then go for that again, if you have failed
once. Yes. And maybe, and that's the best thing that might work for everyone. Like every
time like new country is always new experience. Of course, a lot of new friends, new places
and very, very interesting experience. So never fear and go for that. Make most of it.
I enjoy and love that answer. I was actually going to ask you your advice for other people
and girls your age, but you already answered that. So I will ask you this and it's related,
but also it's other advice. We live in a time where there is so much on social media. A
lot of girls are not feeling confident and they feel their self-esteem destroyed because
they compare themselves to celebrities or girls who are photoshopped or people who are
living the jet set, a rich life every day and they think, oh my God, who am I? I'm not
as good looking as that girl. Nobody will love me or I'm not so rich. I will never be
so rich. So they get depressed. What's your advice so that they can really value themselves
as individuals, overcome those mental health struggles and see the beauty and the value
in who they are as a person? Oh, so yeah, you are right. This is a problem
of 21st century where photoshopped girls are valued more and how to say and people want
to look more like same as they are. But I would tell to every single girl that, my dear,
you are perfect. You are unique. No one in the world is same as you are. The eyes and
hair and everything that you have, no one else has that. And that character and that
all the special things about you are not about everyone. So for people who are not very confident
in themselves, it's how to say it happens to people, but you have to look up to yourself
and accept the reality. So you are as you are. You are beautiful. You are gorgeous.
You are smart, brave, and you can do everything and you are unique. That's the very important
part. You are unique and no one else is the same as you are. No one else can do the things
that you can do. So always remember that and never, never, never give up. Never think that
you are now. No, someone is better than you are, or someone is more beautiful than you
are. You are unique and you are the best. That's my advice for the girls. Never stop
believing in yourself and you can overcome everything. That is absolutely a perfect way
and great advice. Thank you so much, Shabnam. This was my privilege and my honor to include
you in this project, to share your perspective, your experiences. I hope also that every year
you listen to this episode and notice every evolution of who you are over time. And I
thank you so much. I wish you success. I wish you all the things that help to people and
the growth and the happiness you desire. And thank you again.
Thank you so much, Aziz. Thank you for inviting me to this absolutely amazing podcast. I love
this conversation. It was so friendly and lovely. And so I was very happy and honored
to be part of this. And of course I wish you success as well. And I wish that every single
girl from all over the world. So we get more and more connected and we can share stories
and we can learn many new things from each other. And that's a great thing you have came
up with and I wish you just success. So yeah, thank you so much.
You are welcome.
