Episode Transcript
Hello, my name is Aziz and I'm the son of a divorced mother. She is really my superhero.
That's why it's important for me to support women to share their uniqueness, their personalities,
their perspectives, and emotions about this world. In these difficult times in human history,
we need to bring the people of the world together. And when we hear the voices of women, when
we listen to real lives of women from other countries, we connect our cultures without
differences or stereotypes and we get inspired by their stories to live a better life. That's
what this podcast is all about. My guest today is Charlie McGarry. Charlie
is a Cambridge alumna and a Hong Kong Cypriot Irish born in Scotland, brought up in Azerbaijan
in the United Kingdom. Charlie has experience in investment banking, media, and publishing
across the UK, Dubai, and China. And she is a former ambassador for the London Young Professionals
Network and the current member of 2040 membership organization for socially impactful next-gen
leaders. Currently working as a full-time strategy consultant for the boutique innovation
consultancy One Leap, Charlie is also building a brand as a shuffle dancer and a social media
influencer. Her hobbies are primarily shuffle dance, a hobby she started in February 2021,
and she is now making it part of her career. Charlie, how are you today?
Thanks so much Aziz. I am very well today and thank you for that generous introduction.
I'm honored, lucky, and privileged to share this moment with you. And I'm very curious
about you as a person because I believe that every woman is so unique that this podcast
is proof. When you listen to every episode, no two girls or women say the same thing.
There is no such thing as women in general. Everyone is truly an individual worthier to
be celebrated. And so the first question I'll ask is if your friends, the people who love
you, who know you most could describe your personality, what would they say about you?
Well, someone on Instagram today described me as a party in a package and I really enjoyed
that. And I think, you know, it's quite funny and flippant, but I think it really did get
to the heart of what I try to be for my friends and for the people that know me, which is,
you know, really providing a bit of joy and fun and support to help people like really
lean into what it is that they're doing. And I try and be sort of a cheerleader for my
friends and, you know, just a bit of fun and a bit of positive energy for the people around
me.
I agree 100%. I love that a lot of people, you know, it's human nature to think that
adding value means criticizing people's ideas and pointing out the pitfalls. But in reality
in this life, you don't know what will work and what won't. And so why not be a positive
force? Maybe this time for them, it will be a breakthrough. So cheer them on. But to ask
you, you said I try to be, which when it comes to language, it means that something important
for you, so you're actively doing it. Why is that? Did you have a period in your life
where some people around you were not supporting your dreams and you thought, no, I will not
be such a person similar to them? Is it because maybe like me?
Interesting.
Yeah, maybe like me in this world, you think, oh my God, so many people are not living up
to their potential. So let me contribute what I can to get those people up to par. Or because
people subconsciously through their language reflect their reality. And so when you say
try, it means you're actively doing it, which means there is a reason that pushed you to
actively do it. What could that be?
That's a really great question. I think to your point around have I had an experience
where that wasn't the case for me, I would say no. I've been very fortunate in that my
whole life I've been surrounded by really positive influences like my parents and my
teachers have always pushed me to be the best version of myself, which I'm very appreciative
for. And I think particularly as I leaned into this quite unique element of my career
with the shuffle dance, I realized that everyone has that thing that maybe that passion or
that interest that is a little bit left to field and they might not know, might not have
the confidence to pursue it. And I think as I've seen, I've got so much joy and fulfillment
from pursuing that, even though it's a little bit off the beaten track, I really want to
make sure that I'm encouraging that in everyone that I come across because I really understand
how much impact that a few words of encouragement can have.
I agree 100%. I salute every single thing you say and do. Actually, after participating
in this podcast, and it's one of the reasons that motivates me, a lot of girls and women,
they think, wow, I thought podcasting is only for celebrities, but if I did it, what else
can I do in this world? Some started their podcast, some started new organizations for
volunteering for women's rights and IT, et cetera. So I want to be that push for them.
But to ask you even further, we live in a time where it seems maybe after the pandemic,
maybe in the age of social media, too many women and girls feel lower confidence. They
worry about criticism. Maybe they have dreams to pursue something off the beaten path and
post about it, but they think, what if someone would be mean to me and will say a comment
that will really stop all my motivation and just send me crying to bed? And many people
who are creators think that hitting the publish button is a stressful experience. They have
to push themselves to do it. How are you able to do it? What thoughts or beliefs give you
the power to push through or do you not experience such hesitations to post, no fear of criticism
of judgment? How does it work for you? And what is your advice for other women and girls
who want to share their voices, but they imagine a world where everybody would criticize them
and just make fun of them and write mean comments if they did, so it stops them and holds them
back?
Yeah, that's a lot to unpack there and a great question. I would say when I'm sort of my
thing, my brand and what I post and create about is dance, it's shuffle dance. And I
think this is quite a recent hobby for me as well. I started learning less than two
years ago and I've been kind of sharing my journey as I go. And at the beginning, it
was more like a diary of progress. So it was only for me and I was only sort of holding
myself accountable. But now as my audience has grown and sort of, you know, just the
number of eyes on me has grown. Yes, I suppose I do have, you know, I do consider how things
will be received. But honestly, what's driving me is just a love for what I do. Like I love
dancing so much. And I absolutely love when people have reached out to me and said, you
know, because because you posted that I had to go like I started learning and actually
I'm really enjoying it. And I think that sort of being true to something that you really
love, like, people can see that it just shines through. So I think, you know, if you're someone
out there that has a passion, if you have like a craft that you want to share with the
world and worried about criticism, I would say, you know what, honestly, like, do it
for you. If you love something, you're doing the world a disservice by not sharing that
passion. You never know who you're going to touch or inspire. So please, please go for
it. Like the world needs more of your energy. And if you do get negative comments, and there
will be some like that says so much more about the person commenting negatively than it does
about you. Like often people are looking for some kind of, you know, meaning or significance
in what they put out online. And if they can't do that with a passion, they do it by taking
other people down. So don't worry about it. It's not a reflection of you. And please don't
let it dull your light.
Thank you. That's so much wisdom. And to me, I actually have the perspective that I love
more criticism and haters. I'm not saying I get it in particular, but to me, it's the
price you pay for more impact. So any additional haters means my impact is growing, reaching
more people. And therefore, of course, to me, I reframe it in that way as good news
rather than bad news. And to speak more, you spoke about energy, you speak about sharing
happiness with shuffle, dance, etc. I'm curious to know, are you a happy person? Or are you
someone who is feeling that happiness through the action of shuffle? And if so, are you
by moving your body, you get into the right mood, you get into the right vibes, and so
you share that energy with people? Or are you someone who loves creating more happiness
in the world so much that you imagine the smiling faces of others when you dance and
that elevates your mood and it becomes a virtual cycle? Or how does it work for you? Because
also, again, we live in a time with so much like the news is sensualizing everything,
saying everything is the end of the world, it's catastrophe, etc. So not many people
control the happiness of their brains and often get into depression, negativity. What's
your method? What do you do to feel that good vibe and good energy that you can share with
the world?
I love how many times you said happy there. That made me happy just listening to it. I
think on your point around how dance and happiness intersect, I would say that since I can remember
fitness and moving my body has been a key source of happiness. Before dance, it was
running. I really enjoyed running. And that block of at least one hour a day that I dedicate
to that has a huge impact on my mental health and my general wellbeing. So yes, I would
say that dance is like almost a foundation for my happiness, which is cool. And then
in terms of sharing dance, yeah, I think I genuinely do it because I love it. I don't,
fortunately, I don't feel any kind of like pressure or, you know, I have to post a certain
way. I think it's just because the act brings me joy. I think that sort of translates into
what people are seeing and I hope it sort of inspires other people too. Did that answer
your question?
Yes, 100%. And you found what you love. You spoke about running. You speak about dance.
And what is your advice? Imagine, you know, there is a teenage girl somewhere in the world.
She doesn't know what she loves. If she imagines a future, she has no idea what she could love.
And so what would be a way for someone else to find something or a few things they love
and to find that quirky, off the beaten path thing they can share with the world to create
something about and add their energy to humanity?
Oh, I would say here, the most important thing for sort of figuring out what it is that makes
you tick and that lights you up is don't listen to voices that generally come from inside
their sort of self-limiting beliefs that you've internalized over your childhood or teenage
years or whatever that tell you you sort of must be a certain way. So for example, I went
to a university where there was very much sort of like three job options coming out
of it, which was like doctor, lawyer or banker. And that was kind of the sort of career paths
that were pushed at you. And, you know, I did follow them for a while and to an extent,
you know, I'm still in that world and enjoying it. However, I think once I removed from my
mind the idea that I had to be this high flying career woman that, you know, worked every
hour of the day in an office, I gave myself the flexibility to explore other areas of
my personality that I hadn't previously. So for example, I never saw myself as a dancer,
but you know, I tried it. It made me feel good. I kept doing it. And, you know, fast
forward two years today, I am where I am. So I guess my advice would be don't limit
yourself to what you think you should be doing and allow yourself the grace to explore the
things that genuinely make you happy. And of course, sorry, I'll add as a caveat here,
that can be very difficult in many ways. Like I appreciate that different cultures can be
quite prescriptive about what girls can and can't do or should and shouldn't do. So I'm
not saying it's easy. But where you can please, please, please do lean into what genuinely
drives you and makes you happy.
I love that. And I actually believe I have this strong belief that life will test you
the most when you follow the path that you're meant to follow or your love. So like you
said, it's not easy, but actually it will be even harder because a lot of your inner
demons will come there compared to following the script that society gives. A lot of times,
of course, reality seems to challenge us before giving us what we want. It wants to test whether
we deserve it by giving us some really hard times and seeing whether we push through and
we persist. And therefore, following what you're meant to do on this earth will give
you fulfillment. But at the same time, it will blaze a fire that will melt away all
the impurities or all the immaturity or all the previous traumas. And you need to be lighter,
more evolved, more mature through the process, which is wonderful. It's not easy at all.
And I have a question about your work and not specifically, but your work in the innovation
field. It's a booty consultancy. Are there some lessons from Shuffle Dance in the last
two years that have impacted somehow the work you do, your approach, some insights that
you had growing your social media or just persisting and learning dancing in the shuffle
way or doing something that is totally different to what most people do that impacted the way
you do your work and how you approach it?
That's a great question. I've never thought about that before. And I'm sure there are
probably content parallels that I could draw. But I suppose I think the first thing that
comes to mind would be something about creativity and creative block. So I think previously
before I started dancing, I was very much the person that if I couldn't do something,
I would just hammer on at it and try my hardest and keep going and burn the midnight oil until
it got done. And I think I also started dancing with that attitude. But I quickly realized
that in a creative pursuit, you can't just drive, drive, drive and expect the outcome
to change. You do need to allow yourself space to think and to join the dots and to rest
and recover. And that actually applies in the work I do in consulting as well. It's
a lot of ideas work and bringing ideas from different fields all together to create something
of value. And often that does require you to step back and just take a reset, absorb
some different sources, put things together in your head a different way. And then when
you come back at it, you've got almost a fresh, more creative slate. So I guess that applies
in both my office world and my dance world.
That is wonderful. I'm also curious about another thing because I'm a mixed nationality
person. And the funny thing or the interesting thing or the gift and the curse of that is
anywhere you go, you never fully belong. And therefore anywhere they're like, oh, you're
part of the other people. And then when you go to those other people, you're not. And
so it's weird, but it also forces you to become more autonomous in your own thought, more
self-centered in a good way where you are the mental point of origin for everything
you do because there isn't a script you can follow. There are too many scripts and subconsciously,
it seems all reject you somehow. So you as an Irish Cypriot, Hong Kong Chinese girl born
in Scotland and living in so many cultures, did you feel that this shaped you to be stronger
mentally to have a more diverse experience that makes you more interesting? Or is it
something that was in some ways a handicap in the beginning that you needed to overcome
to extract all the lessons from in order to become who you are today? Or how is that making
you different to any other person you work with, your friends, or maybe your friends
are all mixed. I don't know. How did it impact your life?
That's a really interesting question and one I've actually been thinking about before.
I did write an article about it for a university newspaper a few years ago, which I can share
in the show notes if that's helpful. But I on balance see it as a positive thing. I think
having that diversity of not just culture and background, but also industry and experience.
So I've had experience across media, publishing, banking. I did a degree in the arts and East
Asian languages, but to be honest, I don't really use it. I just see it as one of the
many ingredients that go into the melting pot that is me. And actually in the article
where I explore exactly this, I ended with a quote by Jack Vanette, which I absolutely
love. And I'll read the truncated version now, but it goes, you are the books you read,
the films you watch, the music you listen to, the people you meet, the dreams you have,
the conversations you engage in. You are what you take from these. You are a collective
of every experience you've had in your life. So drown yourself in a sea of knowledge and
existence. Let the world run through your veins and let the color fill your mind. And
I think that just sums up so well that, you know, everything you do becomes part of you
and your existence and how you see the world. So no experience is wasted. And the more you
can expose yourself to different experiences, the more sort of more of a wonderful creative
melting pot you become. So yeah, that's, that's my view on the diversity.
I love that. And in reality, I find two things. One, people who had hardship in their lives,
who had difficulties when growing up often become the most interesting people compared
to those who had it easy or were born without much challenges. They are much more shallow.
They think the world is so, they're invincible in this world in an unrealistic way, which
makes them lose that depth that is really important. I don't mean that I wish hardship
for everyone, but I find that human beings through diverse experiences and needing to
adapt to new situations and going outside their comfort zones, they become absolutely
fascinating. And the second thing, and I would like to know your perspective on this. You
went to Cambridge, which is, I imagine the culture there was not really in pro shuffle
dance or anything like that, but I'm curious that I have this theory that in reality we
are all inside. We have a desire that manifests what we love and when we are in the wrong
environment we might behave accordingly, but as soon as we find an opportunity to not feel
suffocated anymore by that environment, we go into our freedom. But there are some people
like from Cambridge who will argue, oh no, those other people are corrupting the youth,
et cetera. Were you always someone who were driven like you would have known since the
beginning if you found something like shuffle you would have loved it? Or are they correct
that you were a perfect Cambridge student and then something corrupted your mind later
on to make you a shuffle dancer? What's your perspective on this?
Yeah. I mean, firstly, I hadn't, I wasn't interested in shuffle when I was at university.
So I was like, I never really got to test that one out, but to be honest, I actually
found my Cambridge experience was not sort of oppressive and, you know, every hour of
the day in the library, like it was hard, but I think, you know, I still definitely
got the room and the space and the people around me to explore like different aspects
of my personality. And I think the culture, or at least my experience when I was there
was, because I was surrounded in an environment where certain hobbies were like, you know,
all over the place and like really popular, for example, rowing, I just naturally ended
up doing those. So whilst I was there, I rode for four years. I enjoyed the experience.
I don't think I enjoyed the activity that much, but you know, as I was saying about
the experience is making you who you are, I still learn a lot from it that I use in
my life today. I mean, the first thing I would say is I wish I had started shuffle sort of
five years ago because I'd be amazing by now. But I think, you know, if I had been interested
in it, then I would have pursued it because I do just love it so much that, you know,
I don't really care if other people think I look funny or aren't doing like the right,
you know, right quote unquote activity, I would have gone for it.
That is wonderful. And since you spoke again about experience, and I will say, since you
love this word, happy, happy, happy, happy, and it's unrelated to the question. Nowadays,
at least I guess we're moving from different era to a new one where before if you are specialized
in a narrow field, you get paid the most, you get the most success. We shouldn't try
new things because or diverse things because that's a waste of time and potential. While
you could spend it going deeper, like if you go to a doctor, you want the doctor specialized
in something super specific that you have as an ailment rather than a generalist. At
the same time, there is a new school of thought, speaking about Renaissance skills being a
polymath where the more diverse experiences you have, the more creative you can become
because you can draw on a larger set of data and experiences to bring out a new idea. Do
you believe that the world belongs to people with more experiences, at least more and more
in the future? Or are we wrong? Because if you look at the people who are super specialized,
they always seem to have more stability in their life, more career success, whatever
it is, compared to people who are wandering for most of their lives before they find a
breakthrough that really makes them exceptional. But maybe those are a rarity. What's your
opinion on that? Yeah. I would say the world is moving towards
a place where industries are changing so fast that the job that I might be successful in
might not even have been invented yet. The rate of change is incredible. I think whereas
in our parents' generation, the aspiration was to get into a company and move up and
just get really good at one thing, I think that's unrealistic in today's day and age.
To become a person with that breadth of experience, I like to call them T-shaped people. A broad
range of experience, but then maybe developing deeper experience in one thing as you travel
across jobs. I think that's probably where you'll be most successful.
If you feel that you're gathering all these experiences as you go through your teenage
years and university and your early 20s, and you're not quite sure how they're adding up,
don't worry. You are learning from all of these experiences. As long as you keep a growth
mindset and your understanding, even if you don't take away, this is the right next step
for me from that experience, if you can understand how that feeds into your story and sets you
up for the next step in your career, be that within the industry you're already in or something
completely different, that is what will stand you in the best stead.
I think it's all about understanding that nothing is wasted. It's either a great experience
or a lesson and learning to make meaning from your various experiences and build that into
your narrative going forward is how you're going to be successful.
I love that you're using the word narrative and I was thinking, you know, energy is never
lost or destroyed. It just transformed. And therefore there is no waste, even something
that could be seen as tragic. It can become a story that inspires other people. So it's
useful in that way. And to end this, you're working on your social media impact, your
social media influencer. We live in a time where there are many girls in this world who
the way they use social media is reducing their self-esteem. They see photoshopped girls
live in the jet set life and they think, oh my God, I can never look this good. I will
never be as successful. They are 19 and they are on a mega yacht in Monaco. I will need
to be 65 before I can rent one hour in that mega yacht or whatever it is.
So what is your advice on how to use social media in order to not use it as something
that will destroy self-esteem for a lot of girls and women? Because we live in a time
where it's necessary and more and more so. How is the relationship, how should it be?
Do you have sunset hours after which you don't look at any social media? Do you use it only
as a creator? You don't look what anybody is doing. You just post. What is your advice?
What's your approach? Tell me about this.
The first thing I would say is to give yourself grace with your use of social media because
I think there's so much narrative around, oh, you know this isn't real. These are all
curated lives. Don't let it affect you. But in reality, these tech companies are designing
apps and platforms that are designed to suck you in and make you feel less than and create
this endless sense of comparison. So know that battling against these sorts is hard
and don't put all this sort of pressure on yourself to feel good and bat it off because
it is difficult. So that would be my first thing.
And then my second thing to say would be be really curated with your social media diet.
So look down your list of people that you follow. And when you look at someone's post
and it makes you feel a thing, just observe like, is that a good emotion that you're feeling?
Is it inspiring you to do something to change, to be better? Is it making you happy or is
it making you feel drained and worthless and less than? And for those people where it's
making you feel less good, just unfollow them. Like, you know, you're not saying that you
hate them or that you can't be around them or whatever, but if it's impacting you in
a negative way, just be mindful of how it's affecting you and treat your social media
consumption like you would your diet. So if you eat like a bunch of chips and soda and
no vegetables, you're not going to feel great. So I think of it the same as social media,
like try and curate a nice, balanced, healthy diet that makes you feel good and not worthless
or upset or, you know, drained at the end of the day.
That is such a high note and a positive note to end this podcast. It was honestly my privilege
to spend this time with you to explore your mind, your perspective, to hear your voice.
Thank you, Charlie, so much for this opportunity. I wish you a happy and wonderful week, a lot
more impact in 2023 and beyond, and to grow into shuffle and maybe invent even more new
things to do and reinvent yourself always in the future into bigger and bigger and more
exciting things. Thank you again. Thank you so much Aziz, it was an absolute
pleasure.
