Episode Transcript
You
Peace.
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Hello, my name is Aziz and I'm the son of a divorced mother.
She is really...
My superhero.
That's why it's important for me to support women to share.
their uniqueness.
their personalities, perspectives, and emotions about this world.
In these difficult times in human history,
We need to bring the people of the world.
TOGETHER
And when we hear...
THE VOICES OF WOMEN
when we listen.
To realize of women from other countries, we connect our cultures.
without differences.
or stereotypes.
and we get inspired!
by their stories to live a better life.
That's what this podcast is.
All about.
My guest today is Paulina.
Polina Chalienko. Polina is a Ukrainian.
SLACS alumna of 2019.
an International Baccalaureate graduate in 2022.
and currently a student of business engineering at U Leuven.
University in Brussels.
BELGIUM
originally from the.
Donetsk region in Ukraine
Paulina loves writin' poems.
the subject of business marketing volunteering.
and doing sports.
She is a Civic Workshop alumna of 2019
and the manager and initiator
of many charity projects in Ukraine and in other countries.
Paulina, how are you today?
Hi.
I'm very good. I'm really happy we are here.
It's nice to start this podcast.
How are you doing?
I feel blessed.
I feel very lucky and I feel very positive and curious about you as a person.
So I'll begin with this nice first question
that you probably heard before, but it helps you.
get into the flow of the conversation, and...
If your friends and the people who know you best
could describe your personality,
what would they say about you?
I think.
different friends from different parts of my life
would have different descriptions.
but probably all of them would say that I'm pretty easygoing.
are active and motivated. I think these three things are staying the same over the years.
I love that and it's important because I believe for many women,
whether it's society, social media or life,
demotivates them, and keeps them within their comfort zone.
So in your situation...
What is the source of your motivation?
Is it that, for example, you have been twice through...
the war that Russia has been waging on Ukraine, or even longer, and so you feel life is too
short.
You want to...
change things to affect things all the time or is it your personality or do you have high energy or
You're a big dreamer.
Or what is the source of your motivation?
Well...
It all started when we just left Donetsk and I think this war
that happened in 2014 in my hometown initially,
it opened my eyes that you don't have to stay
in one place over the years.
and that it's possible to travel, you know, when you're young.
It seems like the only way you have out of your city
is to go with your parents to some seashore
and enjoy some...
latte near the sea and then come back to your city and never escape again.
And then this war, it just opened my eyes that you can move from city to city, from country to country.
So we moved to Dnipro.
It's a pretty big city in Ukraine.
and I started to go to school there and everything seemed comfortable, but the realization that I can
go wherever I want to whatever country I want, it hit me hard. So I started researching different
opportunities and this is how I found out about FLEX program.
And this is how I had my first time alone abroad when I became an exchange student and went to the USA.
And after this, I think Flex opportunity, it gave me a lot of connections.
and this is why i'm so grateful to this experience because a lot of about like a huge amount of friends
an insane amount of really proactive volunteers, people who make many projects, people who
change Ukraine.
I think being in this environment and
I think, I hope I am still a part of this environment.
It just motivates you to do more.
You see how people can do changes,
how they can create amazing things,
how they can manage projects,
and you just want to have this part in your life as well.
So I would say initially it was Donetsk and moving.
And then it just being in this environment, growing up.
during flex, after flex, just being an alumni.
It just gives you the sense of being a part of something bigger and that
motivates you a lot throughout the years.
Thank you.
And you spoke about how the way people do things, it inspires you to implement
their characteristics or behavior in yourself.
Does this mean that people are the biggest source of learning for you?
Do you find that?
By meeting people, understanding how they are,
you can understand more about yourself
and the next evolution.
Or how is it for you?
Like, are people the most fun thing in the world?
Is it because you are involved in acting, so you pay attention to how people are and
imagine them in different characters, and that inspires you to act as them sometimes
just to experience it?
Or how is it within your perspective?
Well, I wouldn't say that people are the main motivation.
To be honest, I love people and I'm very communicative.
I noticed that since I'm moving a lot and Belgium is actually country number six in
my list where I live and is the third country where I live alone.
and somehow I managed to come here by myself.
I noticed how my communication skills they're developing
and it's easier and easier and easier for me
to communicate with people, to make friends,
just to find opportunities through them,
just create my environment with people who I actually love
and who I enjoy my time with.
But I would say people motivate me,
but it's not the main source.
The main source is just me having this understanding
that if it's not me.
Then it's no one.
and considering every part of my life.
My parents, they were supportive, but in words,
they would never do something for me.
to go somewhere or to win something,
just for them working and me sitting
and awaiting for the results.
No, they can support me if I want to start something,
if I want to manage,
and if I want to end it with the success,
they will be here saying, yes, good luck.
So with this understanding from the young age,
I just know that if I want something in my life,
I have to try, I have to do it by myself.
And this is my motivation.
understanding that I don't have enough time.
I'm already almost 20 years old.
That is not, I'm not an old person, but it's still, you know.
Time flies. When I was in USA, when I was an exchange student, I was 15 years old.
So it's five years already passed.
So motivation that I have to do everything by myself,
this is what pushes me forward.
And people around me,
they just give me a really good example
of what things I can achieve.
and what way I want to go and what is my understanding of success.
I get this from my people around me.
I really, really enjoy that.
and I appreciate your mindset and everything.
And what is your advice?
Let's say there are some girls or women
who are similar age as you,
but they didn't have the same experiences.
Maybe they worry about the judgment of others
or they desire to move somewhere,
but they have some anxiety or worry
or don't go after their goals and big dreams
because they think.
Oh, if I fail, I will be so depressed or something like that.
What's your advice for them so that they go after those big dreams, because
that's what makes life and worth it.
And that's what creates the big impact.
I think the worst thing you can do is to be afraid.
of judgement.
of people around you.
Because people who actually love you and people who actually care about themselves and about
their environment, their lives, they will never judge someone else.
When you have enough things that are going on in your life, when you understand how hard
it is to achieve something, when you understand how hard you have to work to actually win something
or be successful, you will never judge someone by their failures, instead you'll...
always judge them by the success you have. So if people are afraid of failures,
It just...
Uh, nothing to worry about. No one...
People who actually love you,
they will always be by your side
and they will just push you one more time to try.
They will never ask you to stop.
If it's unsuccessful, try.
For me, I completed my Ukrainian high school two years ago.
And according to all social judgmental looks,
I had to go to the...
University in Ukraine.
But instead, I went to the IB school.
that actually continued my high school struggles
for two years.
And now majority of my friends in Ukraine,
they're completing their third year of the university
and I just started my first one.
and
I would say that it's the best decision that I have ever made.
and I'm very happy about this.
Now I'm studying in the university
that is 42nd in the world.
I'm studying the program that I love.
I'm surrounded by people that I love.
And yes, according to all social judgmental overthinking,
I'm probably not the most successful girl
who completed her high school in Ukraine
and went to the university.
But according to my heart,
that is the main advice probably to follow your heart.
that is the main source of your understanding where you should go around the world.
According to my heart, it was the best decision that I have ever made.
So yes.
Thank you.
And you seem to be intuitive and a person who follows her heart as you spoke about yet you
study business engineering.
How does that work, because business engineering seems to be something very logical.
something for people that put their emotions aside
and follow what needs to be done, et cetera.
So why this choice and how does it reflect
or relate to the way that you're intuitive
and following your heart?
It's a really funny question.
You know, the question why business engineering,
I'm asking myself as well from time to time.
Well, I would say it like this.
I really enjoyed studying economics in my IB school,
And I also, through my life, through different projects where I was a part in.
I knew that I really like marketing.
and social media stuff.
So I always try to participate
in this particular area of business.
But in Europe especially...
study marketing as for your bachelor is a pretty waste of money and time because programs that
are considered marketing programs in europe they're not really uh good and i think they're
just created for
It's my opinion, from the universities to...
study not the main areas of business,
but only one particular,
and to study one particular area of business
for your bachelor for three years.
is just too much.
So I knew that I want to study some business in general.
But then the question was, is it business administration?
And business administration is a really common program around the world.
So insane amount of people are taking it.
And also I'm very good in math.
So I knew that I want to also study something related to computer science.
So kind of like business analytics, right?
So something about all areas of business and at the same time some computer or IT tech department there.
So I was thinking about several universities that had this kind of programs.
And KU Leuven has business engineering.
this fulfill all my desires in terms of
business areas and also about computer science.
The worst part here is actually an engineering part.
We don't have it now, but next year we'll have physics.
So this is something I'm pretty afraid of.
And this is why I keep asking myself,
did I make the right choice?
because physics is not my strongest sport, I would say.
But in general, this program is very useful.
And after completing it, you become actually a specialist
in many different fields.
And it's possible for you to go to do master's
in many business fields.
So if you complete it, that is pretty hard
because the dropout rate and the passing rate
is pretty big.
So I would say, if you complete it,
you may be really successful in your life.
So this is why I'm here.
And this is why I'm still struggling, but trying.
Thank you.
It seems to me you would like to challenge yourself.
Is this a way that can describe you and so what pushes you to challenge yourself?
while many many people they prefer to stay within what they know and literally it's like living the
same year again and again and again on repeat forever. To be honest it's something I'm really
afraid of and I would say that is my huge nightmare that you just just described.
um this is how it happened to me and i'm very happy from
uh my childhood right from my ninth grade from my 14 years old
Um, every year, almost every year, I have new CT.
where I live.
I think the longest time over the last six years where I stayed in one place, it was
Georgia, my IB school, only because the program was for two years and I couldn't just run
away after one year.
But it's not like I'm challenging myself.
but it's just my, like, you know,
this thoughts in my head that the world is huge.
and that you have so many different opportunities.
There are so many places I've never been to before.
There are so many programs.
There are so many people I've never met
that are probably amazing specialists,
amazing friends for me.
So this motivates me to move.
And it actually starts to scare me at this point
because every year I sit.
And it seems like everything is good around me,
that world is fantastic, that everything is stable.
And at this point, I'm too afraid to have the stable life
with this understanding that if this will become
the circle of the same things over and over again,
I'll probably become crazy.
So...
I think that's my lifestyle right now.
And I know that if there will be this time or place
where I will stay in one place and I will stop moving,
so it will be the best country, the best place,
the best people.
if I will have stability in my life.
I would...
I'm afraid that I'm gonna love it and stay there.
But until I don't have the stability for now,
since I'm young and I still have this chance
to win something or just to go to study somewhere else.
I'm gonna use it as much as possible
because I don't want to give myself this feel,
this...
you know, this sense of comfort zone, because I'm really afraid I'm not going to escape
after this.
Thank you. And at the same time, when you're wandering in that way, it makes me think…
How do you keep your culture as a Ukrainian girl or as someone from somewhere, whether
it's Donetsk or a different Dnipro or...
any part of Ukraine, if you're constantly moving,
do you feel that you're becoming a melting pot
of many cultures and parts of the world
and you're becoming your own culture?
Or how is your situation as your personality is shaped?
and evolved with your own experiences.
If there are some people from Donbass region
who are listening to your podcast right now.
We have this joke that like then you can take the person from the nest or from the bus
But then never the bus from you
And it's a good thing.
I would say that my cultural heritage.
It's always with me, and in general, as a Ukrainian girl,
it's always with me, and I'm always keep in touch
with my friends from Ukraine,
with some traditional holidays that we have.
I always, even if I'm in the surroundings
where there are no Ukrainians.
I still try to introduce any kind of holiday or any kind of event that we have in Ukraine.
For example, as we have Maslenitsa, I think you know, right?
In the beginning of the spring, where we all make crepes.
So, New Year, tradition, Independence Day, all of this is always with me and I know that I will never stop considering myself as a Ukrainian citizen.
no matter what.
But probably in terms of my character,
for sure it has changed over the years abroad
because I'm surrounded by people from different countries
from all around the world.
So it would be pretty hard for me and for them to get in touch if I would have this strong, unchangeable, unflexible character.
But I think it didn't change in terms I...
became more of a culture of someone else.
I think it just became more flexible
and easygoing towards all people around me
because this is how you make friends
and this is how you communicate with everybody else.
I agree 100% and you spoke about your experiences.
we have to discuss February 24th and the invasion and that very horrible situation. And yes, the war
started.
Maybe even before 2014, for a long, long time.
But for you, how was that day?
since you are someone who has experienced the 2014 war as well, did you experience it
differently than others? How did you feel? How were your emotions? Just say, how did
you hear about the news?
of that day? Did you believe it, not believe it? Please share that moment.
As well as, how did it change you as a person between then and now?
Well, when the war started in 2014, my family, we were in Donetsk.
And I remember we were watching all this news throughout the year about Maidan that started before.
And I remember all of this happening in Ukraine, in Kyiv,
and us just watching this on TV.
My parents, I think they secured me from the events that were happening in Donetsk at the same time.
The only thing I remember in terms of changing the desk
is when I was working,
I usually before the war, it was my fifth grade.
I was always walking to school by myself.
I was never afraid, Donetsk was pretty safe city.
And then my grandmother suddenly decided
to always walk with me.
And I remember we had this government building
right in front of my school
because my school was right in the center of the city.
And I saw people with guns and with Russian flags there.
And this was the last time I ever saw my school
because my grandma just took me back home.
And then several nights after this,
our neighbor called because she lived in the building
that was like on the last floor,
on the skyscraper that we had in our neighborhood.
And she called my parents and she said,
please close your windows and turn off the light,
close the curtains because we hear snipers on the roof.
So, please be careful.
And the next day, my parents decided that we are coming to the holidays abroad, but
in general, they just left the house.
it was the last time when I saw my room and my flat and the majority of my friends.
But this is how it happened in the next-
I still was too young to understand everything.
I just knew that something really bad is happening, and then I knew how people when I just came
to Dnipro, to the next city, how they perceived me as the girl from war.
I think that's a big gratitude to my parents that I didn't see war.
I think my eyes were covered in the car when something bad happened around the window,
or my ears were covered when the news were on TV, but I wasn't really traumatized by
just the experience of losing your hometown, your friends, and just moving when you're
11 years old.
That's what traumatized me, I think, the most, but my experience wasn't that horrific as
I think for the majority, so I can't complain, to be honest.
And in this situation that happened on February 24th.
I wasn't in Ukraine, I was in Georgia,
but the whole family of mine,
they were sitting in bomb shelter for two months.
after all this happened, because at first they were in Abalone,
it's the region of Kyiv where Russian missiles started to come.
and it was really scary.
and then they moved to Dnipro and they lived there.
But in general, I had this guilt inside of me,
since I'm not with my parents, I'm not with my family.
that they're struggling when I'm abroad.
I think all Ukrainians that were with me that time,
all of us, we had the same feeling of being miserable
and having no power to help our families to escape.
and it's just in the hands of God and not in our hands.
But in general, I think all this war experience,
it changed all of us.
It doesn't matter who's from Donetsk, who's from Kiev.
were you there on February 24th or you were abroad.
It just doesn't matter at this point because all of us,
we have friends who died in the war.
All of us, we have family who were in the bomb shelters.
All of us have friends who
are coming from some really hot places like Mariupol, Omarenko, or Bakhmut.
I personally know several people who went to the war and died.
So I think this experience will never make us
to be the same people as we were before February 24th.
because we're this young generation that actually sees everything that boys of our age, they're
coming to the war, girls of our age, they are helping around Ukraine.
So it's our generation who is standing up.
So I would say it changed everybody.
And I think it's changed for the best.
because now we clearly are more united.
and that now we have this patriotic sense.
Majority of us changed to Ukrainian language.
Many of us are doing many different volunteer projects.
So yes, the war is a horrible thing to have
and no matter to say that it was for the good,
it's like very bad to say this,
but in terms how it did change us,
I think we just became much stronger.
And this is what I think Russia didn't expect of us, but we did.
Thank you, Polina.
All I can say is Slava Ukraini.
Hero Slava.
Thank you.
I appreciate you participating.
It's my honor and my privilege to have you in this podcast.
I wish you success.
I wish you victory and peace for Ukraine.
and keep going with your volunteer work,
with your charity work.
make every day count. And thank you again. Yeah, thank you for inviting me. It was a pleasure
to meet you for the second time. We already met two years ago.
and I'm very happy we did it again.
It's a pleasure working with you.
Hopefully we'll see each other one more time
over the next years.
Of course.
I really enjoyed it.
