Episode Transcript
Hello, my name is Aziz and I'm the son of a divorced mother. She's really my superhero. That's why it's important for me to support women, to share their uniqueness, their personalities, perspectives, and emotions about life. Too many women in this world feel alone. They worry about the judgment of others and they struggle with their mental health, but when they listen to the Rare Girls podcast where empowered women share their voices and tell their stories, many women will feel inspired to live a life of freedom and to overcome all insecurities. They will feel it is a safe space to find their confidence, to remember their unique beauty and to feel their self worth and they will connect with the sisterhood of rare girls who encourage their success and support their dreams. That's what this podcast is all about. My guest today is Winnie Kirabou. Winnie is the very first woman representing Uganda in this podcast. She is the co-founder of the wine curable brand alongside Gerard Porta. Wine curable is the 2022 winner of the Abriyan Style and Fashion Awards, Africa's biggest fashion awards and red carpet as the best emerging African fashion designer. Listed as one of the 20 young African creatives to know according to the multi-award winning Nigerian magazine, the Africa Report, and part of the TFG jury in the design and fashion degree at the University of Girona. Winnie studied fashion and textile design degree at the University of Girona in Spain after obtaining a diploma in microfinance from Kiambogo University in Uganda and she is currently based in Barcelona. And in 2019, Wine Carabao is the brand where exclusivity, quality and values manage to merge different cultures and through Wine Carabao Social the brand helps Ugandan girls who cannot go to school using scholarships and offering them various other opportunities. Winnie, how are you today? I'm okay. How are you doing Aziz? I feel blessed, I feel very happy and honored and lucky and curious about you as a person. So I'll ask you this nice first question, which is, if your friends could describe your personality, what would they say about you? - Well, I think my friends will say, number one, I'm introverted, number two, I'm strong-headed. I think these are the two main things that my friends will describe me as. - I love that. I have so many questions related to both of them. I'll start with being introverted. I believe being introverted can be a strength in your inspiration and having that peace of mind to find some new ideas and unique perspectives. But when it comes to networking within the fashion world, it might not be all that useful or powerful. So how do you do it? Do you put on an alter ego of some extroverted person? Do you have someone else? Maybe your co-founder is the extroverted one or how can introverts make it in the fashion and design space? - That is really an interesting question actually. Thank you so much for that question. I think the first time I'm being asked this question actually, yeah, being an introvert also comes with the fact that you need to reevaluate yourself before you present yourself to groups of people especially. So usually it's that, I have to remind myself to get out of my comfort zone and remember why I started the projects that I'm doing. And this kind of reminders, of course the reminders helped me to reevaluate who Winnie is when she is presenting herself to people. And I think as an introverted person anywhere, I think it's one of the strong suits that we have is that we can create things in our own mind before we present it to people. So when we present something, we have revised it 20 million times, if not even more. So that comes as an advantage in its own way. But also having someone that helps me, 'cause Gerard is way more extroverted than I am, actually he's super extroverted than I am. And he compensates in that sense. He does come in and levels the ground for the people to know that, okay, why Interrebo is not a quiet mute kind of brand. There is happiness, there is joy, there is extravites, and there are introverts, of course. So we are all represented in one way or another. So yeah, that is how I combat the introvertedness versus meeting people and networking. - Thank you for that. And I agree with you. So I noticed as well, you spoke about remembering your why, your big values, and that really puts you into a mode where you'll do whatever it takes in order to create your vision and change the world and transform it. And nowadays, some women say, "Well, I grew up, "I'm living up to the expectations of my parents. "To some people, maybe I'm trying to follow a vision, "but it's not mine." How did you understand the importance and find your vision and those values that you're willing to fight for? And is there a process you can recommend to other women so that they become also visionaries, even if in a small scale in their own lives, so that when life gets hard, they do the same, they remember why they were doing it to keep them going forward rather than and stay in their comfort zone? - Well, that is an internalized kind of situation. But I can already advise in a way that you can internalize situations 'cause we all handle situations differently. However, most of the times when your parent, for example, I was doing microfinance, it has nothing to do with fashion, you know? However, there is this point of you have to listen to your parents, but you have to be such a child that can convince the parents that also your dream is valid. How do you do that? That is the biggest question, is that you follow what they're telling you. For example, your mom says you have to study finance, you study finance so that she understands that you're not being against what she is advising or your dad or whoever your relative or your guardian is. Show them that you're interested in their idea. When you present their idea, it's gonna be a little bit harder for them to say, no, no, I'm not following that. That is that kind of line of work doesn't have money or whatever, you know, parents, all they think about is what is the profession that brings in money so that my child can be comfortable. So I think you have to listen to them 'cause the more you listen to people, the more you understand them. And again, I'll take you back to being an introvert because we do not talk too much, we listen more. And that is a very, very strong tool to have, especially when you have a vision. You listen to people, you see what they are talking about situations. When you present yours, you have already gauged, they are yes and they are no. So if your mom is gonna say no, you know that it's not your time to say what your vision is. So you work upon it in the background, But when you present it, it is such a strong vision that they can see the possibilities. So I think it's very important. I think if you watch a lot of podcasts and stuff like that, you've heard about Steve Harvey also talking about the fact that do not present your dreams to people before you are stable in them. Because what happens is they are not your vision bearers. they have the power to actually demolish your dream. So you have to first build your dream and make sure that it's strong enough for you to present it. And when someone says, "Have you thought that maybe?" You have already thought of all those possibilities. So you have the perfect answer for it. So that would be my advice. If you want to present your dream to your family and your dream is more like fashion, most people call it a hobby, but it's not, it's a job. So if you have such kind of dreams that people consider hobbies, fast internalize it, build it in the background, present it, and every question they have, you have to be at least 80% sure that you can answer them positively and have a solution to that. - And that's the superpower of being introverted and being able to think. I agree with that. And you spoke that you consider yourself or that your friends and people will say that you're hard-headed. I have questions about this, but first, how do you define it? What is the meaning of being hard-headed to you? For me, it's when you say A and someone says B, it cannot be B. It's A. That is my definition of being a hard-headed kind of person. and you cannot change your mind about something. And I think, of course, it goes back to the kind of person that I am that I internalize stuff. So by the time I tell you that the answer is A, I am sure it's A. You have to do a lot of convincing for show me that it can be B. And and there are times when it's B, but yeah, it comes with the territories and boundaries of being me. Thank you. I want that to be an inspiration for other women. There are many women who have been programmed to be people pleasers to avoid conflict where they know it's A, they internalize it's A, but if someone says B, they're like, okay, it's B. So what is your advice to women in general who might be such, have that fear of offending others or the fear of saying no or the fear of not being people pleasers and in order for them to stand their ground and if they believe something to stand up for it. I think number one I'll advise you to always remember what makes you happy. I have this thing that I always say that I come to this world to be happy. So if something doesn't make me happy, it's not for me and I'm not going to go out of my way to make the other one happy just so I can can go back home sad. So I have to be happy in the decision that I'm gonna be making. So it's a very, very important decision to know that happiness is number one on your priority list. And that will go also for your visions, that you have the dreams that you have. They are dreams that we have because my dad was an engineer, I have to be an engineer, or my mom is this, I have to be that. It isn't really your dream. It is what you have seen around and you're getting familiar with that and making it your reality. You need to sit back and realize who you are, put it on paper and see like, okay, who is winning? Okay, winning is this, winning is that. 'Cause I have nothing in comparison with my mom. She is introverted from here to the end of the world. She can have conversations that I can never have, but it's more about you as a person, what makes you happy? If you think about yourself, five years, 10 years from now, the decision that you're taking right now, is it the right decision that you're going to look back and you'll be like, yeah, I nailed that. I'm glad I said no to whatever that person said. Oh, I'm glad I said yes, 'cause also that comes with who you are. And I think that is where you have to start from, is remember that whatever decision you make has to be what makes you happy. Does it tickle your fancy? If not me, as Winnie, I say it's a no. Don't go there. - I agree 100% with that. And also since you are a designer and someone who is involved with your brand, you touch and take care of understanding the different textiles and fabrics and everything. There is this kind of push, let's say, since we're living more and more in a virtual reality for people and women to wear clothes that are more about comfort and casualty rather than what they feel best in, let's say. And there is also even some studies that what you wear can make you more confident or less confident, more hard-headed, less hard-headed, and all that. What's your experience with this? Do you feel that when you dress in the way that, For example, I had this podcast guest, her name is Doina, and she always wears high heels and dresses. And she said, "For any woman, if you don't feel good, "wear high heels and a dress and go walk outside "and you'll feel amazing right away to you. "Do you feel that dressing, for example, "in the way that you are sharing and portraying at wine, "Kirabou, as well as any other way that the woman will feel most confident in is actually a way to take care of your mental health, to give yourself confidence and to allow yourself to go out of your comfort zone. What is your perspective about this? Well, I think that there is a truth in that. As a fashion designer, I think clothes are not necessarily a therapy. However, I think they enhance the feeling. If you're feeling down and beaten and you put on your sweat trousers and a huge t-shirt that is probably four or five sizes bigger than you, you just enhance that feeling over and down. When you look at yourself in the mirror, you're going to see an image that is not giving you the best version of who you are. So yes, it enhances, but it's not really a therapy. I say you go and see a therapist if you're feeling in a certain way, you wanna put on your heels and dress and go to your therapist, I would say do that. Don't just put on your heels and your beautiful dress from when to walk around and think it's going to sort the entire situation 'cause you need to take care of yourself, you know? If you have to go to the gym and walk on who you are from the inside so you can generate a certain kind of energy, you do that. But however, when you put on your dress, when you're feeling good and you put on your heels, you're gonna feel 10 times better, you know? It enhances the feeling. I don't think it improves the feeling. It just enhances whatever you have. 'Cause if you're feeling down and you put on a beautiful dress, it will make you feel like, okay, all is not bad. However, there is internalized things that we all need to work on. And I think in terms of mental health and everything, I mean, my first advice will be go to a therapist, put on your best dress and go to the therapist. That will be my advice for you. - I agree with that. Thank you. And I want also to know another thing 'cause you're a caring person and you do a lot of things that involve social initiatives for girls in Uganda that don't have the possibility to study or as much opportunity as other people. Can you share so that the world will know more? What is their situation? Why were you moved to dedicate a big part of your work to helping those girls? What is the mission there? Well, Wayinkirabu Shosho is a segment where we want to give back to the people of where we come from. And I think it's very important for everyone to remember where they come from. You can be as big as Bill Gates or whoever your that millionaire name that first comes in your head. You may be that big, but it's very important to stay rooted. I think that is one of the things that you will see even in our dresses. We try to mix in couches and everything. It's basically to keep us connected to where we're coming from. And one of our ways is to give back to the societies where we come from. And we do it through when you buy our dresses, for example, 10 percent of whatever you pay to us goes in to help a girl in Uganda to go to school to buy scholastic materials and all of these things. I would not say that the situation is the best, especially with a with a group of girls that we choose to help because we do not go to the cities, we go down into the the poor societies and the villages that cannot access education in a sense of if you're a girl there is still this stigma of you've gotten your period it's time to get married because we cannot spend money on you your brother has to go to school because he's going to be a man and he has to take care of his family and we need to bring an idea of it is okay we will come in and help you know and it's not like a white savior kind of behavior of you want your kid to go to school but we are going to bring water to the society. That is not what you need. You know if the girl wants to go back to school that is why we do not go looking for who wants this but we go to the schools and we look at the performance of the kids which kid is performing better but at home there are no even there is a financial capability to keep pushing them. All of these things we consider them before we decide who our candidate is going to be to benefit from our interior social because it's important to help someone that is actually seeing the value in what you are putting back into them. And besides that, we usually send teachers in summer, they come from here and they go to Uganda to experience what teaching in Uganda looks like. And they go to these schools where we choose our candidates from and they try to and they see how to live in in a Ugandan society and how it feels. And for them it's also a good thing because then when they come here and they are looking at the other African students that they have, the perspective is more of an understanding one. is not of "I don't understand how these people compute their..." you know? It's more of "Oh, it makes sense!" you know? And that is mainly our idea. It's to do our part, basically. I think most people, you will ask them "What is that one thing that you love to do?" and they'll say "I love to see the world happy, to change the world." But you just cannot start big. You have to start small and that's what we did. We started small and yeah we are hoping for bigger and better but in the meantime we are happy to know that we can help the few that we can in our capacity and giving to those that actually need it and they are benefiting from it not just throwing money to people and saying yeah we're gonna solve your lives because listen we can do we can do so much but solve someone's life is a big idea to bear. So we start with a with them with the girls because we know in Uganda we say you educate a girl and you educate the nation. So that is what we do. We educate the girls so that when they are women they can educate their kids because I'm also from a single mother home and that comes with this idea of if my mom did not have the idea of push your kids to school. I could be like any of those girls. Who knows? The world is weird. It turns as it wants, not as we want. So yeah. I like that. And I want to relate it because you spoke about how you started in microfinance and you moved to now design and having your brand. And as you said, the world turns as it's once. Well, for you, how was that story of going from from microfinance into something that some people might consider a hobby, but you're turning it into a vision. And what were like some things that helped you stay on track, even when it got harder, even when some people criticized, so that other women who might be deciding to do the same can already have something that can resonate with? My story with microfinance and going into fashion started with cast calling. I was at uni and they put a cast calling for models and I thought, "it's not bad." And one of my friends told me, the one I had at uni, she told me, "when you could do this, you're tiny, you're this." And she described everything that in her mind was the ideal model, how she should look. And I thought, well, there is no harm in it. And I went and I did the casting and I joined modeling and all my time being there, I was so intrigued on how the dresses were made. I don't think I was more interested in walking the runway rather than knowing about the dress that I was wearing. I was too excited to know about the dresses and then looking at all these exaggerated designs and everything and it was like you can have this crazy idea in your head and actually bring it to life. That is a superpower if you ask me. So in my mind I was like, I need to know the trick and all the magic of doing this whole facade. I want to know it. So that is where I started from and I was so lucky that my mom is such a supportive person, especially when it comes to my ideas. When I ask her, "Mom, I would like to do this. What do you She always takes the question back to me and says, "You, what do you think we need? If it were you without me, what would you do in this position?" And it was this kind of conversation. That's why I said it's good to listen to your parents, because there is too much knowledge there that it only comes with experience. And my mom knew that always we know the answers, but we look for the answers outside when we already know the answer. So for a woman out there that is looking for how to pull themselves out and be the best version of themselves in their dreams, in their visions, I would say you have the answer and you know exactly what you are supposed to be doing. You're just, you're either scared, which is okay if something doesn't scare you, it's not worth it. I will tell you that for sure. You have to be scared out of your boots. If you're not shaking out of your boots, try another dream. That is too easy. It's not challenging for your energy, for who you are. I'm sure that if you look through the things that have scared you and you did, you're the happiest. So I would say, push yourself out of the fear. Find that one thing that you can start with, 'cause for me, it was always actually with my partner, we always say, we have this dream for our brand, Well, we cannot do that today. So what are those small steps that we can take to bring us closer and closer and closer? And that is what we did. We started by doing small things. What do you do? You go and learn fashion so that you know how to communicate in fashion language. But you cannot just wake up and be a fashion designer and you don't know how to sew. You don't know the lingua for fabrics. You don't know anything. How are you supposed to explain to someone to make you a dress? even if you have all the money. You'll have to employ now a fashion designer that went to fashion school to execute your dream. The question is, is that your dream for someone to execute your dream? If that's your dream, you're doing good, go girl. But if it isn't, go study whatever your dream is. If there is one way or another that you can equip yourself, it's the best place to start. And then slowly by slowly, one foot in front of another, do not rush to achieve the dream in one year. Most dreams take forever. I haven't achieved mine. I haven't even scratched the surface. So it's just put one step, one foot in front of the other. Every day, the little that you can, every day put one stone on your house. And I assure you before the end of five years, you may have a house to live in. - Thank you so much, Winnie. That was inspirational. I am grateful for your time. I thank you for sharing your voice and participating in this podcast. You said you just began to scratch your dream. I wish you to go into more growth, prosperity, and for the whole world to know wine, caribou and all the values you stand for. Thank you so much. - You're so welcome. It was such an honor and pleasure to be here. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)
