Episode Transcript
Hello, my name is Aziz and I'm the son of a divorced mother. She is really my superhero. That's why it's important for me to support women to share their uniqueness, their personalities, perspectives, and emotions about life. Too many women in this world feel alone. They worry about the judgment of others and they struggle with their mental health. But when they listen to the Rare Girls podcast, where empowered women share their voices and tell their stories, many women will feel inspired to live a life of freedom and overcome all insecurities. They will feel it is a safe space to find their confidence, to remember their unique beauty and to feel their self-worth. They will connect with the sisterhood of Rare Girls who encouraged their success and support their dreams. That's what this podcast is all about. My guest today is Emeline Nunez, known as Mutia. Mutia is a poet and an activist. She studied her Bachelors of Journalism at the Polytechnic University of the Philippines and soon, will start her master's degree in social transformation in Germany. During her free time, she plays the guitar, sings or reads books, and she also paints. Mutia loves traveling, especially going to the islands and see in nature. She moved to Germany two years ago. Mutia, how are you today? >> Yeah. I'm very excited for this podcast. I was preparing for it. >> I'm very happy, honored, and lucky to have you here. I have a very interesting question for you, which is Mutia. You were living in the Philippines growing up there. How was your personality there surrounded by that environment? Did you feel that your personality changed just because of being in Germany and a totally radical, different environment? >> Oh, yeah. The thing is, when I was in the Philippines, I was doing a lot of things. I was an activist. I have my corporate job and I was very outgoing. Then I moved to Germany. Moving to Germany is turning my life differently. You turn your life 360 degrees. In the beginning, I started feeling a little bit more insecure because I don't speak the language. Even though I already started, let's say, the basics of German, but it's not enough to build a conversation with the locals. The culture here is very different. If the Filipinos in the Philippines were very warm, everybody, even if you meet them on the street, they call you my friend. In Germany, if you smile at them on the train or on the street, they feel weird like, "Why is this person smiling at me?" My initial being outgoing, it didn't come out immediately. In the beginning, I was a little bit more shy here compared to the Philippines, but eventually I adjusted. >> Thank you for sharing that. It makes me very curious, you as a poetess and a painter, if you think about it, is your shyness or that level of you keeping to yourself and being more introverted, a big source for your need to express yourself in poetry, in art, and other ways that are more where you create yourself alone and then share with the world rather than be put on the spot? Or does it have any connection with this side of your personality? >> That's the thing that's very interesting, the way how you put it, because being extroverted is like showing, expressing yourself and showing it in a more action way. You wanted to be surrounded by people, but when you started moving to being an introvert or being a little bit more shy, I think myself or my inner self was looking for a way to express my feelings. When I was in this stage in life, I wrote more poems, so I wrote a poem about missing my hometown. I started sketching. I go outside by myself, hanging out in the garden somewhere outside, and then just reading books, and then sometimes I've got more ideas than I used to, because I think it's part of my self-discovery, and then I started reflecting more about the things that's happening around me. >> Thank you so much. I really love that you shared that, and I appreciate you so much for opening up, and I'm here to learn much more about you. Let's begin with your extroverted side. When you are there surrounded by people feeling in your element, what is valuable to you about that? How does it make you feel? Why is it important in your life? >> Being an activist in the Philippines, it opened my eyes into the people's struggle and the people's story. As a journalist, I studied journalism. As a journalist, it makes you interested about the life of everything, the life of animals, people, even the non-living things, it makes you interested about this kind of stuff. As a journalist and an activist in the Philippines, that's how I see myself being into, being immersed in the stories and knowing the life of others. Just getting to know people. Then sometimes you wanted to know what's happening in their life, because at some point in time you wanted to know, maybe I can do something about it. Maybe I can help this person, or at some point, maybe I can just be this person's friend. I wanted to be everybody's friend. It's something that's why I think I am extroverted in the Philippines. >> Thank you. What is interesting to you about the stories of people, you said it's because you are a journalist, but to know much more, is it that you find knowledge and learning in the stories of people? Is it that you feel connected and bonded and one with them with the universe? Is it that when you understand them, you feel you can speak in their voice to fight for them as an activist even more? Is it simply entertaining you get bored out of your normal life and you want new stories? It's almost like a telenovela or something like that. Tell me more, what makes it to you such a fascinating drive to explore the stories of people, of things, of everything? >> It's very interesting because I think you understood exactly who I am. But being a journalist, it's not just about the boredom. Sometimes boredom comes to you. The moment you started interacting with people, then you realize that your small life, even though it's small, there's something more outside of your small life. Then suddenly you realize the world is bigger. Then with this big world, you realize that there are other small other lives like you and the humans. We are sociable creatures. That's what I find interesting about humans, the lives that they're living every day, they're not the same. Then you realize you can learn more about the experiences of others. Then when you learn more about the experiences of others, then you gain more knowledge, then you gain more wisdom, and then you started opening up yourself to the world and giving more to the world. When you also said earlier, like when you hear someone talking to you, does that make you feel like you can be their voice? Yes, that's exactly how I feel sometimes. When I was in the university, I went to this fact-finding mission. I went with the farmers and I realized there's this one incident in the Philippines. It's called the Harshanda Luh-Sita massacre. It's like a group of farmers who are asking for a little bit more payment for what they're doing. Maybe for a day after working for a day, they're only getting less than a dollar. They started demanding. But of course, politics and the social structure, sometimes even if they wanted to achieve something through peace, the dangers happen and something happened to these farmers. It's a big story in the Philippines. It's been televised everywhere. When it's my time to go there, I realized the life that I have as a student, I was thinking like, "Oh, my life is hard as a student going to school every day." But the thing is, when you go outside of the classroom and you go outside of the university, then you see the condition of the other people, people like them. I decided there when I visited this farmers, I decided like, "Okay, if their voices are not enough, then maybe adding my voice for their causes will be a big help." I did my best. I contributed writing for a script for a documentary. I decided writing articles for them. Because I was also the editor-in-chief of a student publication in the university. So yeah, I dedicated my time. I give them time. I give them voice. That's exactly why I feel for the people, I feel like I wanted to explore the lives of the others. Because yeah, at the end of the day, I wanted to contribute something in the society. I wanted to help people. I wanted them to feel like they're not alone in this world. Thank you for sharing that. That's a very important story and it makes me also curious about something. It is a psychological tendency that people in Asia tend to be community-oriented. One in Western Europe, Germany, US, they tend to be individualist. The way that you described it is that you are learning about yourself to have wisdom. That allows you, if I understood correctly over time, to be able to contribute more. So to you, is it that the more you understand about your community and the people within it, you understand about yourself more and therefore you know how to contribute better? Is it like in a way that you see yourself as a reflection of your community, so it's communal, or is it that you use them as sound and bored to understand about yourself, so it's individualist? I want to know a bit more because the way that you described it could be both ways. Is it that your community is the way that you understand yourself, or is it that your community lets you understand who you are by reflecting on yourself more, or how does it work? You see, what I believe in is that we are all connected. So even though we are individuals, we are still part of the bigger picture. And even though at some point you feel like when you're doing something, you might feel like, oh, this is very individualist of me. But at the end of the day, the reason why you're having that kind of reflection is because of the external factors that's actually driving you to think that way. So at the end of the day, it's a mutual effect. So your decisions as an individual will affect the external. The external will affect you as an individual. So yeah, you're correct. It's both ways. It's something that in the Philippines we say, can I say, we say, So that means everything is connected within each other. So even though you say, like, yeah, I'm alone in this journey, at the end of the day, when you're walking through in this journey, you're going to be experiencing something along the path. And at the end of the day, you realize you're not alone. 100%. Thank you for sharing that. And you mentioned that when you described the world out there, you said going out into the big world lets you know that you are a little life that is within a world filled with little lives. You being an activist, what makes you think that you can make a difference, like you said, if I, you added your voice to the voice of the farmers, it will make a difference. While other people, the same words thinking, I only have a little life. I don't make a difference. So why waste time trying to make a contribution? Let me be busy trying to make a living and just survive one more day because it's both humble, but you feel at the same time you can make a difference. So how is that connection within your mind that for someone else will be the same reason why they say, I have a little life. I make no difference. So let me just do something else instead of trying to help the other little lives. Yeah. So the thing is, do I think the reason why I came up with that is because I believe that I'm not a big person. I'm not famous. I'm alone. I'm just one. But if there's more one, there's another person who thinks like me, then we are too. And then maybe another person thinks like us and then we are three. So I believe in a collective action. But for a collective action to be formed, there has to be individuals in that collective action. So yeah, one voice, for the others, it might be not enough. What am I going to change? But the thing is, if you're not going to think like that, if you think if you're going to think like that, I mean, then who? Who will? And then if no one's going to think like that, then what change is going to happen in this world? So I also believe in a collective action, but I also believe in this phrase that's saying that the change starts within you. Yeah. So the moment you started believing in yourself and believing that even though you have a small life, even though you're only one, the moment you start moving towards what you wanted to achieve, it means that you are spending your time to a bigger cause, whatever that is. The moment you start, even if it's a single step, I don't know, like maybe, for example, recently I was calling for a ceasefire. You know, I'm maybe just one voice, but at the end of the day, if there's more people like me who's calling for it, then we're bigger boys. Yeah. One with others are stronger. So that's what that's just what I think. Thank you so much. I love the way you think. And it also makes me curious because earlier you said you love going out there to discover the stories of people, to hear the stories about things, about plans, about places, which is more of a receptive state. But usually someone who's an activist, you said, if there are other people who think like me, they're there to share their story in order to convince people to change their minds, to bring them to their cause. So how does it work that you're both there to receive the stories of the people, which is more of a receptive state or a proactive state where you are sharing stories, which is often you see that there is a difference. The people who are activists often talk more than they listen. And the people who want to hear the stories listen more than they talk. The thing is, to become an activist, this is just what I believe. To become an activist, you have to listen first. The reason why someone becomes an activist is because that person listened first. So when I was younger, before I become an activist, I was a typical teenager, you know, going to school. And then I started going to something. I heard the story of these people. And then I realized something within myself, like, OK, if these people are experiencing something like this and they don't get enough help from the government or from whoever, who's going to help them? And then I decided, OK, how can I help them? So becoming an activist, like helping them be the voice, be heard. So yeah, for me, being an activist is a two-way thing. So to listen and to express, because what are you going to express if you don't listen? Listen to the others and listen to your own self, to your own heart. You know, it's like, listen, it's I think being an activist, the number one thing that we should always do is to listen first. Thank you. I love how you express that. And when you said that you should listen to your heart, is this related to your creating poetry, paintings and art? How is that connected there? Yeah, when you listen, when you listen to your environment, to your to the society, you you see things, then you reflect on things. Sometimes, for example, you see another person. Why is this person like this? And then you started questioning yourself, you know, like, am I am I like them? Am I am I like being like this person? And then you started listening to yourself like, OK, listening to yourself means reflecting to yourself. I don't know with the other people, but this is just me. So when I when I reflected in myself, ideas come to me. So when ideas come to me, it means that it's time for me to express, express in what? Writing, writing poems, painting. So, yeah, it's very well connected because it's like when when I'm doing art, whatever kind it is, singing, playing the guitar, painting, drawing, writing poems or writing a blog, I always make sure that it has a part of me. It's a part of me. So when I do art, it's I always say like it's a part of me. So you if the moment you read my art, my poem or you see my painting, you see a part of me. That reminds me of Pablo Picasso when he would decide today, for example, is a green day and he will go to the forest and fill himself with all the green until he's ready to just let it out on the canvas into a painting that is centered around the green and to understand you even more. So you are there. You observe things into the world and then it makes you reflect about yourself and that ideas come to you. And you know, it is time to express that into art or any other way. Two questions. One, you said before that you get wisdom is those ideas, what you call wisdom or how is that connected to that? And secondly, how does this make you connected to something bigger than yourself? Because you said it's essential for expression to be connected to something larger than you. So for me, wisdom is not just wisdom is something bigger. I think wisdom is something that connects me to the universe as a human. You know, wisdom is something that makes me feel empathy. Wisdom is something that makes me feel hopeful. Wisdom is makes me is something that makes me feel happy. So what I mean is wisdom is like the ability of someone to think as a human and to act as a human. So let's say, for example, something bigger in this in the world is happening right now. Wars, you know, to be a human is to have a wisdom. And to be a human is to feel empathy. So when you have this wisdom within you as a human, you feel empathy. So when you have empathy, then you realize that that something is wrong in this world. So because of this, you started thinking, OK, what can I do to change the world to make it a better place? So that for me is what wisdom is. Now we're talking about ideas. Yeah. So wisdom is different from ideas. Ideas are like small, small things that you are thinking, like, for example, an idea is more, ah, I have an idea. I'm going to draw a cat today. But that's just an idea. Wisdom is when you started acting on it because you have a purpose in acting or you have your own purpose when you're doing it. Unlike an idea, idea is just an idea. It's just in your head, you know, but it becomes a wisdom when you started thinking, like, ah, I'm going to draw a cat today, but I'm going to draw a cat because I wanted to post it on social media. And then I'm posting it on social media because I wanted the people to be more aware about saving cats, stray cats. So for me, that's wisdom. But if your idea is just an idea, it's just in your head. You're not acting on it. So based on your definition, you are more human when you are extrovert compared to an introvert. Or how does that work? I know I'm both if I am because both are part of me as a human being an extrovert and being an extrovert introvert is being human. And the humans are not black and white. We're very colorful creatures. We're everything. And we are everything. And we are everywhere. Like, I believe like being a human is being fluid. And sometimes we come to a point where we are happy, then we are sad or we wanted to be alone and then we wanted to be with others. So humans are a constant changing creature. We change physically, we change mentally, we change emotionally. Everything within us changes in time. So I think we are both. I am both. Yes, it's because you defined human as someone who has empathy and is helping other people, which is when you're extroverted and activists surrounded by others, but as an introvert. So how is it when people, let's say, read your poems and you said they will experience a part of you, they will take a piece of you? How is that related to you helping people be in human change in the world? Yeah, I think if they take a piece of me, if I'm not just me, if other people, if other people or me, I'm when I wrote a poem and it's something for us, let's say, my cause recently is about the calling for a ceasefire in Palestine. So I wrote a poem about it. I put my piece, I put myself within it. So if someone reads it and then they get touched by it, they get inspired by it, then that means that they get a piece of me and then people who get touched by something. Normally, you know, sometimes I get messages from other people when they read my poem and then they would tell me like, this is very touching. We appreciate you writing this. And then suddenly they're posting something about it, too. So that that is an influence, you know. So so that means even though I'm an introverted and then I put it in a small piece of paper or just wrote a few words on the Internet. And then suddenly, because of those words, people started acting on it. That for me is already something big. That for me is already something that I really appreciate as an artist. It's a wonderful thing and it makes you feel connected to humanity and impact on them in a big way. And you are a giver. You're someone who's looking to give the world a piece of your heart and to impact humanity. And you said how disconnected and difficult it has been in Germany. You has taken care of others. How do you take care of yourself so that you are staying sane, strong and filled with love and wisdom in a place where you cannot operate in your usual way, where you get and give and receive the energy from other people around you? Yeah. So, of course, I exercise. I love going to the gym. So that's part of me taking care of myself and making myself healthy. I eat healthy. I try to enjoy food in a way that it's not harmful to me. And aside from that, I didn't lose my friends in the Philippines. We're just apart, but I still have my friends in the Philippines, my family in the Philippines. So even though I also have my family here in Germany, but it's different when you are my family and friends are different in a way that they know me from being a young child into being an adult. You know, it's not like we are only separated by the distance, but not by heart. You know, I call them every when I get the chance, not every day, when I get the chance to. My best friend, when she has something to share to me, she just messaged me. And then we sometimes talk over the phone for like an hour or two. Or yeah, that's that's how I take care of myself. Even though I'm far from those people that I love, I take care of myself by staying connected with them. Like, thankfully, we already have this technology, like what we're doing now, calling each other the Zoom, social media. We can be connected even though we are separated by distance. So yeah, that's how I take care of myself. Tell me a bit more about that. So physical presence is not the criteria for you to feel connected. How and do you feel connected to people? Because I'm sure not normal words or normal posts mean connection to you. Is it when they are expressing a piece of themselves and you are expressing a piece of yourself and you give each other a piece of your heart, which is a metaphor. And therefore, what does that mean to you? How do you explain that? Explain more when do you feel connected? How does that connection happen with your friends at a distance? What is required in a communication in order to feel, yes, we are connecting right now. Yeah. So when the thing is, when you are communicating with your friends, you say they're your friends. So that means they're very close to your heart. So for someone to be really close to your heart, that means that this person have seen you being in a vulnerable state. For me, someone being close to me means that this person has seen me in my words and my best. So when someone is like connecting to me, it means that this someone is not afraid to show this person's vulnerability. So it's showing like if that person is calling me, I have a problem, this is what's happening to me. And I'm all ears for this person. And that's how I feel connected to this person because I'm like, there's so many people in the world and this person comes to me saying that this is what's happening to me. It means that this person is not afraid of showing that weakness in the person's life, you know, because nowadays people, they only, especially in the social media age, we always put something only good, you know, when we're putting in the social media, we put their vacation pictures, we put very nice selfies in a nice restaurant. We wanted the people to see only our best side, but the moment that the person actually shows their vulnerability to me in private or even in public, I feel like, ah, this person wants connection because this person is not afraid to show the weakness within him. So yeah, that's, I think when a person is showing their many sides to me, that's how I say that they are connected to me, even though we're distant. Like, yeah, yeah, friend, I have a problem at work. I have a problem with my boyfriend or whatever. The moment that this person is willing to share stories of their life to me, that's the moment I say, ah, I am connected to this person. I'm the first person she wanted to talk to about this. So yeah, I am, I am, I am connected to this person. Yes, that would make you feel very special. And then I'm wondering, do you have a strong, motherly instinct because you want to take care of the farmers, of your friends when they have problems and vulnerable of wars and people who are being collided by wars. So where does it come from? Which place is it that you see, like you said in Tagalog, that the world is you and you are the world and therefore the pain of the world is your pain. Or you like to be in that motherly role where you're taking care of the vulnerable and of your children and of babies and of people who are in a vulnerable state. Tell me a bit more about that. Yeah, you see, I look up to mothers. I feel like I believe that they're very selfless because mothers when they, when they carry the child for nine months, you know, scientifically, they're already saying that the moment that you started conceiving a child in your womb, it can cause you so many issues physically, you know, losing hair, losing teeth with some women. For a woman to do that, it means that she's giving her life. So I'm looking up to mothers like that. But the thing is, I feel like the causes or the reason why I'm like this, it's not because, it's not solely because of being a mother. I think it's solely because of being a human. Whatever I am feeling right now and whatever I wanted to share to the world right now, even if I wanted to take care of everybody in my life, I don't feel like it's because I wanted to be their mother. It's because I wanted to be the person who's there for them. I don't need to be their mother. I don't want to be like mothering them, you know, the word mothering, like telling this person, oh, you have to do this because when you're a mother, you're like guiding a child for it to grow up, or you're guiding a child, nurturing a child. Like, I feel like I don't need to become a mother to be nurturing for other people. So I think it's being empathic is not something that only mothers can feel, even guys can feel it too. So yeah, I look up to mothers, but I feel like what I'm feeling right now is not coming from being a, it's not that motherly instinct, but maybe hopefully in the future, I will be a mother. So based on your definition of the world human, how do you see the world? Do you see that some human forgot what it means to be human? And when they take a piece of you, it reignites that humanity. So they remember, do you feel there are like forces of good and evil in the sense that some people are human, others, they do not and have forgotten how to be human and it's time for the human ones to win. Or like, how do you see that? Because your definition of it doesn't just mean that you have flesh and bones and a soul, but it means it's a specific kind of behavior that is in tune with other people that is giving, that is impacting others, that is often activists. Your definition of human is being an activist more than anything. So how do you see it? Do you see yourself as reminding others of their humanity? Maybe they get distracted by their day to day struggles to do that. Or do you see, look, there are people who have a good heart and a good soul and are human and others who may be not so much. And so it's good versus evil. We're like the movies or how does it work? Yeah, so to be a human is both to be both like a bad human and good human. We, I think everybody has that in our, within ourselves. So we are both good and bad. We cannot deny that sometimes we are good and sometimes we are doing bad things. It's part of us being human. But the thing is, every day, what do you want to choose? To be good or to be bad? That's the thing about being humans. We have consciousness. So the moment we started acting on something and you know that it's a bad thing. Do you want to continue doing the bad thing or you wanted to choose the other side, which is the good thing? Yeah, even though both bad and good exist, but we have the freedom to choose. What do you want to do? Do you want to stay bad or be good? And I think being an activist is something who is always trying their best to choose the good. I like that very, very much. And it's something like you said, you are yourself when you choose the good because you can know deep down what is good and what is bad. So you don't need people policing you in any way, which is interesting perspective as well. And a very positive one and empowering filled with freedom. And to finish this today, there are women who are worrying constantly. They catastrophize, which means they want to do things in this world, but they worry about the worst case scenario. Maybe they struggle with anxiety, with being timid, with the expectations of other people, with the images when they compare themselves and social media and all that. Is there any advice or something that you believe more women should hear so that they can live up to their potential and actually be free to choose every day exactly the life that they want? I myself is not free from comparing myself to others. Like I said, I'm a very afflicted person. So when I see something, I try to ask myself, am I being like this person? And that's not just within the acts or behavior or attitude. It's also within the physical. And people are very visual creatures. So when we something nice, we like to look at this nice things. But how I survive this, growing up in the Philippines, growing up, I was also being teased as someone very skinny, big head, big forehead. It took me some time to overcome this insecurity because it was something that I realized growing up that I have it within me. I cannot change anything within. Like I cannot change anything about my appearance unless I have money, you know, but I was young. So during this time, I don't realize how I can change my appearance. But the thing is, I growing up, I just realized like, OK, if you think I'm not pretty, but I am very hard to say my parents would describe me a charming child. So people like me, no matter like there are people who doesn't like me because of my appearance or like the other children, they tease me. They don't like me because of my forehead. But there are children who likes me because they think I'm fine to be with. So that moment is like, OK, you don't like me. I don't like you, too. I go to those people who likes me. So I think now, now as an adult, I still do the same. Like if someone tells me like I don't like you because of your appearance, then I go to someone who will like me, even though I'm looking like this. At the end of the day, beauty is objective. So other people will see me beauty, pretty. Other people will see me not pretty. So no matter where you are in the spectrum of beauty or ugly, people will have something to say about you. So at the end of the day, like if they have anything to say anyway. So what are you again? It's the truth. It's the choices that you have. And then when you have when you're presented with the choices, choose something that will make you feel better. A billion percent. I agree with you so much, Mutia. It was my privilege and my honor to share your heart, a piece of you and your voice within this project. I wish you to impact the world, to succeed and may be in and making the change that you desire in this life. And I wish you to keep going and to have a happy life surrounded by warm people. You meet in Germany so that you feel like you are back home in the Philippines. Yes. Thank you, Aziz. This is a very nice podcast. I enjoy being here.
