Episode Transcript
Hello, my name is Aziz and I'm the son of a divorced mother.
She is really my superhero.
That's why it's important for me to support women to share their uniqueness, their personalities,
perspectives, and emotions about this world.
In these difficult times in human history, we need to bring the people of the world together.
And when we hear the voices of women, when we listen to real lives of women from other
countries, we connect our cultures without differences or stereotypes, and we get inspired
by their stories to live a better life.
That's what this podcast is all about.
My guest today is Anna Kostenko.
Anna is a Ukrainian girl from Kiev in Ukraine and a student at both the Institute of International
Relations, Taras Shevchenko National University of Kiev, and at University of Zurich.
Anna loves doing makeup and drawing.
It really helps her to calm down and deal with stress.
She is also currently learning digital art.
Not yet as a professional artist, she is just self-taught.
Anna enjoys drawing different cartoon characters.
Moreover, she is totally into theater, especially musicals.
She thinks there is something really special about seeing the actors perform live on
stage.
She has previously worked as a volunteer at theaters and theatrical events.
As for achievements, Anna has always been one of the top students both at school and
at university.
At school, she participated in lots of academic competitions and received awards
for that.
While in high school, she was selected for FLEX 2017-2018 and got a chance to study for
a year at an American high school.
She spent her time in Minnesota and absolutely loved it.
The time there taught her a lot about herself and who she wants to be as a person.
Anna is currently finishing her bachelor in Ukraine at the Kiev National University.
She studies regional studies and international relations with special focus on
Asian countries.
She is also currently enrolled as a visiting student at the University of Zurich and
planning to do her master there in modern Asian and Middle Eastern studies.
Anna, how are you today?
Great.
Thank you for having me here.
How are you?
I feel blessed.
I feel very positive and excited about the adventure we call life and very curious about
you as a person.
So I'll begin with this nice first question.
Anna, if your friends and the people who know you very well could describe your
personality, what would they say about you?
I believe they would say that I'm quite a cheerful and optimistic person.
I usually try to see the goods in the world and in people themselves.
I try to be really kind and open to people, but sometimes behind this whole
cheerfulness hides this real straightforwardness.
So sometimes I might say quite harsh things or like answer really honestly
about the questions in the moments people would not expect.
So my friends kind of learned to live with that, knowing that I was not trying
to be mean to them and that I love them.
It's just me expressing my own opinion.
And yeah, I have yet to learn how to do that in the most perfect and the
most kind way.
But I don't know, I think something like that.
Thank you.
That's a surprising answer, because it's very unexpected from a student
related to diplomacy to not be diplomatic in that way.
Thank you.
You said you're cheerful and optimistic.
I'm curious about that because I know the natural tendency of the human brain
is to be negative.
So how did you cultivate, develop the optimism?
What makes you believe that things are always OK?
Is it a spiritual faith?
Is it you working on yourself because you were depressed at some point?
Or how did you achieve this state of mind?
So I think it has really nothing to do with faith or spirituality.
It's the way I was brought up.
My mom, she has a really optimistic thinking and she's like a real life
optimist.
She sees the best in the world all the time.
And I kind of was always inspired by her.
And of course, as a young person and as a teenager, you deal with a lot of stress,
with a lot of challenges and problems.
And you have to keep going and find the good somehow.
And my mom always taught me that everything will turn up as it's
supposed to be and everything leads to the good things.
And you know what?
I've experienced that in my life.
And I believe that with some positive energy, you know, you attract positive
things and positive people around you, and that makes you happy.
Thank you. I agree 100 percent.
And it seems to me that relationships and human connection are very
important for you.
So I'll ask, how was February 24th for you?
Because it caused you in many ways to be away from your friends,
the people you know somehow, and to lose some of those connections.
Did you believe it that the invasion was happening?
Did you not believe it?
What did you think?
How were your emotions?
And how did you change as a girl from that moment till today?
So, like, February 24th started with me, like, waking up somehow around 7 a.m.
I didn't hear all the explosions.
I just received a call from unexpectedly my boyfriend's mom stating that the
invasion has started.
And I, like, I couldn't wrap my mind around that.
Like, I literally did not believe that would happen.
Like, before, you know, there were talks about, like, the war starting.
I thought that was just, like, some kind of propaganda and, like,
things like that.
I never thought that they would really dare to invade our country.
That was, like, really unexpected.
So, at first, I was, like, shook.
And then I started reading the news, ran to my parents, and I was just, like,
what?
So, did the war really start?
And my dad was, like, you have to get ready.
And then, so, like, first two days was spent in Kiev, and then, like,
there was, like, 25th was when Russians almost got into Kiev.
And so my dad's decision was to leave the city.
And then we fled to, like, western Ukraine, and we spent there, like,
next two months, I think.
And that's when I started, yeah, thinking about going abroad and,
like, doing a semester abroad.
We didn't expect then that it would take that long and we'll have to,
like, actually stay abroad for a long time.
We thought that would, like, be three months or something, and we'll come back.
And as for the human connections, all of my friends, like,
except for my boyfriend, stayed in Ukraine, and they are all in Kiev.
And I am really stressed about the fact that I'm not with them,
because I'm, like, the person for having a few close friends around me,
but, like, I really cherish the connections with these people,
and, like, I really love spending time with them.
And we were planning, actually, like, on the weekend of the 26th,
27th of February, like, our usual gathering, and that hit me really hard
that we never have been able to come together since then.
And I've seen them.
I've came back to Ukraine for, like, a week, and I have seen my friends,
but I still really miss them, and, like, I'm really glad they're doing OK
and they're living their lives.
But, like, I wish I could be there living with them, not, like, abroad.
I understand 100%, and all I can say is Slava Ukraini.
Hello, I am Slava.
Thank you.
And how was adapting to Zurich, how was adapting to Switzerland,
especially that the culture is different from Ukraine,
and you didn't, like, it wasn't your big dream, you didn't prepare for it?
So, that adaptation to a new culture,
how do you take care of your health, of your mental health,
physical health, and keep yourself OK in Switzerland?
So, I'm...
I had the experience of adapting to a new culture
while being in the United States,
and that taught me some lessons about, like, acceptance and tolerance
towards how people are and that they are and could be different
from what the Ukrainians are and how we see the world.
So, I didn't have that many problems with adapting to Switzerland,
as I already knew how it is done.
But Switzerland is quite a special country, you know,
even inside of Europe, they have a special culture there,
they're not a part of a European Union,
they're open, but not too open,
they are Western, but not too pro-Western, right?
They are trying to be more neutral,
so it's quite a difficult thing dealing here with that politically,
you know, as a Ukrainian,
you expect people to be supportive,
you want, like, the Western countries to be united,
front against Russia,
and Swiss people are usually more, like, you know, back from it,
they're like, we cherish our neutrality,
we do not want to get involved too much,
of course, we do support Ukraine,
but we will not do it in huge amounts
as the USA and the EU does,
and, you know, and as a student here of a political science,
it's quite, like, a journey to get adapted
and not to get furious about, like, the position of these people,
as you wish them to be more harsh towards Russia
and towards all the situation,
but somehow I feel like I did really have problems
with mental health here,
more because, as you said, it was never my dream to go abroad,
like, after the US experience, I love the US,
do not understand me wrong, I love the US,
but, like, I realised I want to spend my life in Ukraine,
and I was planning my whole life in Ukraine, in Kiev,
like, I knew it was my dream to live in my country,
and then, like, the moment of having to leave the country
where I did not really wish for it,
I did not wish even for, like, a semester abroad,
like, a Rasmus programme or whatever,
I was not planning on doing it,
it was just, like, the necessity to do that
as I wanted a good education,
and somehow, like, I had trouble with that,
now I think I've come to peace with that
because, like, it's my goal, right,
to get a good education, to be useful to the world,
to help people,
to have my own place,
to not be a burden for anyone, whatever,
so, and University of Turin has been so kind to offer,
like, the opportunity to further my education
and to further my knowledge of, like, the Asian countries
and political science and international relations,
and I think it's a great opportunity,
and I just do not want to miss it because it's just great.
I'm so happy for you and I'm happy all about that,
and to know you also from other sides,
you love make-up,
that's one of the things you're interested in,
why is it interesting for you?
Is it an emotion that it gives you?
Is it a freedom?
Is it creativity?
Like, when you create or put on different make-ups,
is it like a meditation
where the process makes you totally relaxed,
or can you describe your relationship and love
and interest in make-up?
Yeah, so, it does really help me, you know,
to get ready for my day,
to keep my emotions together,
to put my feelings together,
to get ready for how I wanna feel during the day.
I do not feel the necessity to wear make-up, you know,
because I do not think I'm beautiful without it.
I do believe I can go out without make-up
and I feel absolutely beautiful and gorgeous.
I just love spending time on, like, creating my face.
I really enjoy, like, accentuating some features,
thinking how I could look differently if I wished to,
but I do not want to, like, change my face really,
but I wish to see how different colors work with my face,
how different styles work with my face,
how unusual it could get
and how interesting I could look.
And, you know, it's sometimes about, like,
turning heads, right?
Because you're going out
and you're coming to university
with, like, something really unusual and bright
and people are like, what?
Wow, do you think you could do that?
And I think it's really interesting
just to express yourself with make-up,
but, and at the same time,
it really helps me to calm down and to...
I love the process of, like, creating something
on my face or someone else's face.
I love the process of creation as itself.
I think it really helps me concentrate.
And, yeah, I just think it's something really special
to be able to do that.
And I'm always, like, self-taught.
I never did any courses.
I just, like, look at things and I like to explore myself.
I don't want to be taught.
I want to explore it myself, how I see it.
If it's wrong or right, I want to make my own mistakes
and figure it out what works for me personally.
I love that attitude.
I really encourage it.
I had another question, but then I have two,
so I'll tell them and I hope it's not really, like,
too much or too overwhelming.
The first is, how do you express your creativity
and ability to create in regional studies
and Asian studies?
Because some people might think,
well, how is that creative?
That's one.
But secondarily, a lot of women are not comfortable
with making mistakes and they stay in their comfort zone
because they worry, oh, if I make a mistake,
I'm a bad person and my parents will hate me.
Everybody will think I'm bad.
So what is your advice for them
so that they enjoy the process of making mistakes
as part of the journey?
So the two things, how do you express your creativity
in your studies and in your education?
And second, advice for women
about being comfortable making mistakes.
Okay, so I do agree that at some point,
regional studies is not something too creative.
You literally have to look at the world
and analyze how it works, right?
How the powers work, how the politics works,
how the society works, and how it all connects.
And there is nothing too creative about that,
but I use creativity in my studies as, for example,
as I said, for concentration.
Instead of writing notes for my classes,
I usually would sit and listen to what the teacher
or the professor is saying.
And at the same time, I would concentrate my energy
on drawing something, on doodling something,
creating some characters or whatever.
And that helps me listen to what,
and listen to what my professor is saying
and to understand what they're saying.
And at the same time, concentrate my energy
on something I enjoy.
And another thing how I do that,
in a process of studying,
you do have to do presentations.
And I absolutely love presentations.
I would spend hours and hours
doing my PowerPoint presentations,
learning how to, the tools to make them
more beautiful, more creative,
and at the same time, professional.
And I really enjoy this too,
although it takes me way too much time
in comparison to my group mates.
But I think I enjoy looking at my presentation
and be like, hey, I think it looks good enough
and professional enough,
and I think it draws attention to the right points
and it accentuates what I'm telling.
Because I love performing and telling people
about my passions, about things that I love.
So I think this is something I could use
in my studies as some creative parts
I could use in my studies.
And then as for your second question
about the mistakes and the advice,
I think the first thing anyone could do
to feel okay with making mistakes
is accept who they are and how they are.
It's about accepting yourself,
about accepting your faults, your faulty features,
some imperfections that you have
and not try to jump over your head
to be the most perfect
and to create the most perfect image.
I knew, I know I haven't always been a good friend
to the people I love.
But I try to, I'm not, I'm sorry about that
and I'm not blaming myself for that.
I just did not see that then.
And what I can do is just to make it better
in the future.
And the same with any mistake.
Any mistake is worth making
just to improve yourself in the future.
But you just have to accept the fact
that you are allowed to be not perfect, right?
I agree 100%.
Thank you, Anna, for this wise answer.
And I'm also curious more about you.
You said before the invasion,
you had a plan for your life to live in Kiev,
to have your whole future there.
What was the plan, if you can share it?
And how did it change now after the invasion
and the whole situation becoming more chaotic?
So how did you adapt it?
What is your vision and the way that you think?
Okay, well, so I was definitely planning
to do my master's and do my master's
like in regional studies,
just follow my home university
and continue with regional studies
with the special focus on Asian studies.
And yeah, that was basically my plan.
I never thought about like a real job
that I wish to have.
I knew I would not work in diplomacy
or anything connected with politics.
I just think it's too harsh.
I do not want to get involved
with those power struggles,
with corruption and like these things.
I just want to keep myself, you know,
more clean of it, more like private sphere,
more helping people than like involved
into real politics of the world.
I just thought like when I chose my path,
I just thought about something
that would be interesting for me personally to study.
And that was regional studies.
I thought I learned something about the world
and how the world works.
And then I'll figure it out for myself.
I still do not have like the perfect idea
of who exactly I'm gonna be.
I might be like an analyst researcher
of the Asian region.
I might be a person working
for like some private company
wishing to work with Asian customers, right?
As I learn more about their culture
so I could better communicate with them.
Or I could be, I'd love to be a translator
for like languages.
I'm studying now Chinese,
but I'm thinking for my master's
of studying also Japanese.
And so that could give me an opportunity
to be a translator for like Ukrainian companies
that wish to work in the Asian markets, right?
And wish to explore that region
and I could help with that.
I was also kind of thinking about doing theater
and like international relations and theater
like helping Ukrainian theaters
explore like the different markets of the world,
like expand, take their performances abroad.
So like I have a lot of different interests.
I'm not really sure yet
where exactly I will put them,
but I'm definitely sure that
after I finish my master's in Zurich
and hopefully the war would come to an end then
and I'll come back to Kiev
and figure it out like how I could be helpful
to my country and my people
without being directly involved into politics.
Thank you for that answer.
And I noticed you're mentioning theater again and again.
I know it's a big love for you
and you feel that when there are performers
on the stage live, it's magical.
What is that for you?
Are you an empath
and you can feel the energy of the actors?
Is it you love the attention
and that's why you said
when you're turning heads with makeup,
it's a similar feeling
to have the attention of the whole room
when you're an actress in a theater play
or how is and what is the loveliest,
most interesting thing for you about theater?
I think the most wonderful thing about theater
is like this connection
between the audience and the actor.
This is something you never get in the movies, right?
Because in the movies you come
and watch people pre-recorded with some special effects,
but there is some special bond
that the actors create with their audience.
And the most wonderful thing is
even if you get to see the same play or musical twice,
it will never ever be the same.
If you rewatch a movie,
the movie will always stay the same
unless you get director's cut to the movie, right?
But if you go to see a live performance
at any moment can something happen on stage
and the actors will have to improvise
and some interaction with the audience
that will change that plot a little bit.
Some character will create some new line,
some, I don't know, some stumble on the stage
will create some new scene
that has never been in the previous moments.
And yeah, I think I just love performing as a person.
I think I'm quite expressive
and I love making like this bonds
with people in this way.
So I feel quite comfortable on stage.
I will not say I'm a great actress.
No, I'm not.
I'm just, I'm learning a little bit,
but I think theater gives us something really special
and people tend like modern teenagers
and young people tend not to appreciate it
as it's not covered with so many beautiful special effects
as the movies do.
But there is something intimate about theater
that there doesn't exist anywhere else.
Thank you.
You mentioned the importance of connection
and you spoke before about how you prefer
to have a few deep friends rather than many.
What is the meaning of connection for you?
How does it develop and how do you experience it?
Imagine those teenage or younger generations
who are only interested in movies
and maybe they don't have friends in real life.
It's all through Instagram and social media.
So how can you communicate to them?
How do you experience that connection?
Why is it so beautiful?
And how does it develop like your thoughts about it
as if you're defining it from the dictionary of Anna?
You know, people are by their nature social, right?
And we seek human connections.
I think if you have people around you who care about you,
it really helps you develop.
It pushes you to go further
as these people are supportive of you.
You can always share your achievements with them
and they'll be like, hey, I know you're great.
And you can keep doing that.
And this is something really important,
at least for me, to keep going
because you feel appreciated.
You feel that people care about you.
You can always share your emotions with them,
your feelings, your troubles with them.
I think it's really important
that you build trust with people.
You can never ever trust a person online, right?
You never really know them.
It takes years and years of human connection,
of real life interactions
to actually get to know the person.
And like every person is their own whole universe.
And we're always changing.
We're always changing, constantly changing.
And that human connection helps you to see
who people around you are, helps you develop yourself,
helps you to create yourself,
helps you to see the world as a better place
because you start believing in the good of people
as people around you actually care.
They are not just strangers replying to your texts
or even strangers that you text
and tell about your experiences.
And they're like, like,
they are people who actually respond.
And this is something you will never get
in the chat or Instagram,
except that like even chat and Instagram,
you can read the same sentence
with two different emotions, right?
And if you're actually talking to the real people,
this is when you can really see their true emotions,
not your own interpretation of their emotions,
but how they really said it,
not how they texted it and you read it
because at the same sentence,
you can read aggressively or really kindly, right?
I agree 100% and I want to know more.
Thank you so much.
You have a lot of thoughts and wisdom and interest.
There are many Ukrainian women, girls,
whatever from all over Ukraine
who are abroad in Canada, in the UK,
in Portugal, in Spain, in Switzerland and all that.
And the longer this war and invasion continues,
the more they will start their life.
They have a new job, their education.
And I asked some of them and they say,
well, Ukraine needs warriors and builders.
It doesn't need really like all other things within it.
What is your perspective on this?
Do you believe that many, many of the Ukrainians
who are starting lives abroad
would return to Ukraine to help rebuild it
or because they already started a new life,
they will of course support by donating, et cetera,
but it will be like a whole generation of Ukrainians
who will be missing from Ukraine
when it's time to rebuild.
What are your perspectives and ideas about this?
So I think a lot of Ukrainians do want to go back,
but you're right, the longer the war goes,
the more are the chances
that we will start building our own lives here.
Like if it takes two years to finish masters
and then you come back to Ukraine, it's fine, right?
But once you get a job here,
once you start renting the apartments,
building your life,
this is some much more difficult decision
you have to make to actually go back.
You have to have like the will and like the goal,
the aim to fulfill in Ukraine, right?
You have to come back to something,
to some kind of life that you're planning on doing.
So I will never blame the people
who would wish to stay in Europe abroad
if they have built their own lives there
because it's something about humans also,
it's something that we're really conservative,
at least I am about like where I live.
I grew up in Kiev and I'm really attached to Kiev
and I want to build my life in Kiev.
But at the same time,
if I start building my life somewhere else,
I also will get attached to this place
and maybe Kiev will feel a little more foreign already
because I have my new friends here,
I have my new family here,
I could have my boyfriend or husband there, right?
And this is something you don't just leave, you know?
And I, as a person,
I know I want to come back to Ukraine
and I want to help Ukraine rebuild
and I wish a lot of young people
who got education abroad would do the same
as we will need a lot of people with good education,
with good ideas who have seen the faults
and the goods about like the European democracy
to help us build Ukraine the right way.
What Ukraine can offer to European countries
and what European countries can offer to Ukraine, right?
And this is something really important
that young people, our generation,
comes back and helps to rebuild.
But I will never blame the people
who would wish to stay.
It's their choice, it's their lives
and I could understand the decision to stay.
Thank you so much, Anna.
It was honestly my privilege and my honor
to include you in this project, in this podcast,
to share about your life, your wise perspective.
I wish victory for Ukraine.
I wish peace and thriving and progress for all Ukrainians
and I wish you to be able to return
and be with your friends and hug them in Kiev
and celebrate together.
Thank you again for participating.
Thank you so much for including me.
It was a wonderful experience
and I also learned something about myself today,
now with you.
So thank you for wonderful questions
and for wonderful interactions.
I really appreciate it being here.
You are welcome.
