Episode Transcript
Hello, my name is Aziz and I'm the son of a divorced mother. She is really my superhero.
That's why it's important for me to support women to share their uniqueness, their personalities,
and emotions about this world. In these difficult times in human history we need to bring the people
of the world together. And when we hear the voices of women, when we listen to real lives of women
from other countries, we connect our cultures without differences or stereotypes and we get
inspired by their stories to live a better life. That's what this podcast is all about.
My guest today is Saman Akbarzada. Saman is a female author from Afghanistan. She loves writing,
reading, art, listening to music, and hiking in nature. Her debut novel,
Life is a Movie, was published in August 22, 2021. It is the story of a working child in Kabul,
Afghanistan, and what women face in discriminated societies. Her poetry book, A Glimmer in the Dark,
was published in November 17, 2022. Her motto is, Give hope, spread love, and be kind.
Saman, how are you today? Thank you so much for the lovely introduction. I am good. How are you?
I feel positive. I feel blessed. I'm very curious to know more about you. And so I'll begin
this with this nice first question, which is, if your friends and the people who you know
you best and love you very much could describe your personality, what would they say about you?
That's a very interesting question. They would probably say that I am very quiet when there's
a lot of people in the crowd. But with the people that I'm close with, I talk a lot and we
have lots of fun. They would probably say that I love writing and I love going to art museums.
I love nature. They would probably describe me as somebody who is calm and quiet. And I wish I
think this is probably what they should say. I think you should ask this from my friends,
actually. I understand. Thank you so much. And you being quiet when there are a lot of people
around, does this make you observant in order to notice more and that inspires your
poetry and writing, etc.? Yes, exactly. That's a very good point that you noticed.
I think I am more of an observer, a listener. I mean, the humans are so complex and interesting,
even though sometimes they can be intimidating and scary. But if you just look at how amazing
every single human is and their personality, then so much on the details to their
characteristics and everything they say has a profound meaning in between the lines and what
they mean. So if we take the time to actually listen to people, we will be so caught up
thinking over what they are saying that you don't have much to say, but you just love
listening to them and observing it. And yeah, I think that inspires me to write it out.
So I write more than I speak. Yeah, that's exactly why. I understand. Thank you. And you
as a girl and a woman from Afghanistan, tell me more about the reality, the lives of women
in such discriminated societies and how it truly is compared to even what people could try to
imagine, but they cannot even reach that reality in a way that you are experiencing
it rather than imagining it. So tell us how it is. How is the reality of it?
Yeah, thank you so much for asking this question. This will help us raise awareness and educate
everybody hopefully about a very serious problem. So in the last 20 years, it took a lot for women
to actually have a voice and they led businesses. They were part of the political parties. They
worked in presidential palace. We were in a pretty good situation, especially in regards
to education. For the first time in the last decade, almost in every single province and even
in the rural areas, girls were, educational services were provided to the females in
Afghanistan. And also, so, you know, in the college entrance exam for the last couple of
years, the girls actually topped the list in the entire country. We were very developing and
in a very good state. But unfortunately, since the forceful takeover, since the fall of Afghanistan,
I am going to be quite honest with you. Currently, there is no right for Afghanistan. So I cannot
even talk about something that is non-existent, you know. They have been stripped of their
fundamental rights. There is no right for them to get educated, to work, to travel. And every
single day, unfortunately, there is a new restriction being declared against them. So
they are in a very, very bad situation right now. And I think it's important for, especially,
you know, around the international communities, the feminists who claim that they advocate for
the women's right. I think right now, Afghanistan is the only country in the entire world
where this barbarism is going on, where it's legal for the girls and women to be held hostage.
So, and it's been going on for two years now. And, you know, like, what is the plan if we don't help
them now? Like, what is going to happen to all those women who actually knew what freedom is,
who their families depended on them? They worked, they provided, they were thriving.
And now it's like back to Stone Age. So this is what's going on currently in Afghanistan.
I understand, and that's absolutely horrible. And tell me a bit more about how you are raising
awareness with your books and with your poetry, and what difference do you hope that will make
when you raise awareness in that way? Thank you for your question. Yeah, so I
try the least, like, you know, as much as I can, but it feels little. You know, sometimes
do think that what is writing going to do? Like, I wish I could save them all
and do something bigger. I wish I was the one making the rules. I was an authority. I could do
more. But then again, when I think about it logically, it's like, you know, we have a
saying in our language that a drop in a drop makes a river. So even with my writing that I
assume it's not making much of a difference, maybe it is. And at the same time, it's my way
of coping with everything that's happening. And at the same time, I'm raising awareness
for my sisters in Afghanistan by writing about them, because sometimes people just assume
when they see the numbers, they just see it as numbers and not human beings.
So there has to be someone who explains that scenario in details for the people to actually
acknowledge and feel the reality of the situation. So that is what I think how writing
can help. And also, giving speeches and telling people how to help is another great way. So,
you know, this the same nightmare and chaos happened in the 1996. For four years,
it continued, unfortunately. But right now, today, we have an advantage over that dark era,
and that is internet and technology. So I am someone who believes that we should literally
exploit this and provide this as a tool to the girls in Afghanistan to continue
their education and work until things have settled down. So I believe raising awareness
to the people to help provide internet access to the girls, education services to the girls,
supporting such NGOs is another great way to help them.
Thank you. I understand fully and completely. And I know the development that has happened
throughout some time within Afghanistan for women's situation. Where do you feel that things
have failed? Where do you think that things went wrong for this to happen? Because in many
ways, some people might think and consider that Afghanistan is one of the models of women being
most discriminated against or one of the most extreme discriminations in the world.
So all that progress, I understand it happened. How could it be gone so quickly, so rapidly?
What is the explanation that you have so that people can understand?
Yeah, thank you for the question. The explanation is the way that we were abandoned
completely in Afghanistan. And the way that happened was through this contract called
Doha contract, peace contract. And in that contract, the women's rights, the children's right,
civilians' rights, freedom is not prioritized, I believe. If not, then why is this happening?
If women's rights were prioritized in that contract, this wouldn't happen.
What's happening in Afghanistan right now doesn't even feel illegal because there are no
consequences being taken. There's no action being taken against all these rulings every
single day. Their status, their rights have come down to, it feels like they're not humans
anymore, but an entity, I think. I understand. And it really saddens me,
the situation very, very much. You, as someone who is able to write, to communicate about
it, how do you feel and how do you know and why do you think that poetry, stories, novels,
etc. are a powerful way to raise awareness compared to direct journalism or writing articles
or raising awareness in different other ways? Yeah, I know it because I come from that place.
I've sat with them, I've talked with them, they have been around my life. I've created
memories with them and to be from that society, to come from that place and to be a witness
of that, it teaches you. And to me, it feels like I have gone through the same thing and lived
every single life like that. That's how I feel personally. And that's why I write,
because it just feels so personal, even if personally I have not experienced it.
But seeing it in the people who have, that sort of inspired me as if I was them and I try
to write as if I am someone like that. And how can this help? I think journalism is great,
of course making documentaries, but also at the same time we need to sort of explain it in an
artistic way because there are some people who will not pay attention to the non-fiction,
to the documentaries. They will say it's too much or whatever. But in the fiction part,
there is a touch of art and poetry to it that draws people more. Art has this thing,
this beauty to it that draws people more. And I think it can serve as a good tool to people
to also enjoy the artistic side of writing and poetry. But at the same time,
even if they don't know it, subconsciously, they're going to be feeling for the
marginalized communities and hopefully taking action for those people because
that is the entire point of writing about them, is to raise awareness for them and to make people
feel for the underserved communities. I agree with you and I understand the power of
communication that touches the emotions in this way. And I can know and understand how
difficult it must be for you to try and try and try and feel like you're a drop in the ocean
trying to make a change. How do you take care of your mental health so that you're able
to keep going without becoming depressed or simply giving up because the task is too hard?
Yeah, that's a very profound question, to be honest with you. It is. It's exhausting.
Sometimes it feels like we are talking to walls. It's hard when people's compassion has been
exhausted. It's hard to make them listen. But at the same time, I always pray and hope that I
never become numb. I would rather hurt and keep trying than to give up. I don't think this is
time to give up because the more days pass by, instead of increasing support for them,
people are giving up. So it shows how difficult it is. For me personally, how I take care of my
mental health is of course meditation and taking my writing actually. Writing really helps me.
It's sort of my therapy. And doing therapy itself, take care of my mental health. I do
do things that I enjoy, taking a walk or taking a short break. But that's how I do it. I think
this is a time to not give up, actually. And if I compare what those women are going through
and the mental pressure that it's putting on us who are raising awareness but not seeing
the outcome, their situation is way worse. So if we put ourselves in their shoes, I think
gives us the motivation to continue. So that's a way that I keep pushing forward for them and
hope that to make at least a difference. I believe you're making a real difference.
I really, really thank you for that. And you said that the feminists have failed
Afghanistanis women. How do you believe that happened? Why did that happen? Can you share
Yeah, I think there isn't much support system right now to the Afghan females as it should be.
We are not on the front pages at all. While what is going on in Afghanistan is so,
we can say, unique. As I mentioned before, it's the only country where the women or girls
are stripped of their fundamental human rights. So the entire focus of the feminists actually
in Afghanistan, if feminism means equality, if it's not about matters that are trending
or fashionable, if feminism is about basic human rights, equality, then Afghan women,
females should be prioritized. And as we can see, it's not happening. Like how many times
did you listen about the women of Afghanistan? How many times are there people giving speeches?
Ironically, today, as we are talking, there's this, there's a sensitive thing going on that
there is this people in the UN, females themselves, who are talking about recognizing
this barbarism regime, like literally making this misogyny an official thing.
So that's scary. Not only our awareness is not being raised against this barbarism,
but there are talks going on about making this legal. And like if that's that's will be like
the doomsday for Afghanistan, if God forbid something like that happens.
I understand the severity of that. And any person listening, how can they help? What can
they do even as normal human beings in order to support the cause of women in Afghanistan?
Yeah, thank you so much for asking this. There's a lot of ways
that they can help even as individuals as long as we come together. The first is to continue.
I know it's exhausting. I know. But a single post can make a difference. Keep yourself updated
about Afghanistan as to what's happening. So you are aware of what's happening yourself.
Educate your family, your friends, continue to post on social medias, and also try to
advocate for the girls in Afghanistan right now to make life less miserable and haunting
by advocating for them, which can be providing internet access for the girls in Afghanistan.
As I said, we have technology that we didn't have in 1996, so we can support the girls
in Afghanistan through this. There are organizations, nonprofit organizations,
who are conducting online classes for the girls in Afghanistan. One of them is called
Salam Family Foundation, where I work and I teach the girls in Afghanistan.
There are so many teachers who are working so hard right now to give some hope to those girls
in Afghanistan, and it's amazing to see how this can actually make a difference.
So my request is to everybody listening to support such foundations and provide internet
access for the girls in Afghanistan. There are people who can do it as long as we put
pressure on them and make them see that this is a country that is facing this unfortunate
tragedy right now, and if we don't help right now, then when are we going to help?
This is the time that they need it. For instance, providing Starlink for the girls
in Afghanistan so a lot of them can have access to internet, providing technical devices
for them so they can easily continue their education. As long as we are together, we can
fight this darkness because, of course, education and educating the girls is the only way to fight
this darkness right now. Of course, guns and bullets and war might be powerful, but the
pen that we have and the books that we have, that can be mightier than that, and I think
it's our responsibility to make sure that those girls in Afghanistan have access to it
as much as they can. I agree with you 100% and since you mentioned the power of the pen,
you as a published author, imagine there are some girls and women who are listening right now and
there is an issue, even maybe support in Afghanistan women, they want to write.
What would you tell them? What is the reality of being an author? What are the difficulties?
Do you look at your first draft and you hate it, but you have to keep going?
How do you beat an empty page where there is that inability to begin and all that,
so that maybe more women authors will be in this world to use the mightiness of the book
and of the pen? Yeah, that's a very crucial subject. Of course, writing, there is no such
easy about writing. It is a difficult job, especially as you said, the blank page,
how to fight that. I mean, writer's block is something that you especially struggle with when
you see the reality. Sometimes it just seems like, what am I doing this for? What is the
point of writing if our world is literally about to end? An Afghanistan situation feels
like it's about to end. You keep giving them hope, but it's been two years and even hope
has its limits. So as a writer myself, I do struggle with it. Like what's going to happen?
And it gets tiring. You know, I personally write stories taking place in Afghanistan and
it's not easy to write something so tragic. But you have to continue because again,
what motivates me is that if I don't write, I start to think about the real versions of those
humans who are struggling in real life. So that motivates me that, okay, they need a voice
right now because unfortunately their voices are not being amplified. There isn't much people
speaking up about them. So that's my inspiration and motivation that eventually gets me through
writer's block. And also as a creative, I need to write for myself to function because
if I don't write, nothing makes sense anymore. So it is a tug of war sometimes,
but eventually I do find my way to pen and page and continue to get through. And I pray and hope
that it stays that way for me, that this passion that I have for writing. What I say
to the girls is that it's through the most difficult times that we go that the most
beautiful art is created. Even if we see it in the history and the biography of amazing
artists and people, their most precious and ineffable creations were created at a time
that they were really going through it. So I think using the tragedy itself to create an art
is very profound and aiming at something very much high. So my suggestion for them would be to
not be afraid and write their heart out because, you know, in Afghanistan, I think
the least, the most, the very thing that those girls want right now, want to feel is freedom.
And the exact opposite is happening. They have freedom in nothing. They are literally
like prisoners in their houses, but writing can give them a freedom that is like
inexplainable. It gives me that freedom. So they can create their own world the way
they want it to, the way that they can be truly themselves. And also, at the same time,
they can have the freedom of speaking their heart out without having to and without having
anybody to know it, just a paper and pen and themselves. So I think it can be a great way
for them to express their emotions and their pain and also create something really beautiful
that they can look back to in the future. And I think we would love to see that one day.
I agree 100% and I applaud your bravery. And also as a life lesson, how and what pushes you
to fight even when it's dangerous, even when it's hard, even when everything is stacked
against you. And what advice do you have in women in Afghanistan and all over the world who
might be facing difficult situations in life so that they don't give up and they keep going
like what makes you understand the dangers ahead and the difficulty of the task and still do it
and how can other women be inspired to do the same? Yeah, thank you so much. I remember being
asked a similar question a few months ago and my response is still the same that I am somebody
who has made it out, you know, but there are right now currently as we speak in Afghanistan,
there are women who are protesting on the streets in front of an army with guns and all they have
are boards that is stating their rights. So they are the people who deserve to be called brave.
They are the women who deserve to be called brave and I get inspired by them all around the
world where there is such dictatorship going on, but the females are leading these protests
and bravely, bravely asking, demanding for their rights even though there is nobody standing behind
them. Their backs are empty. They are just alone themselves with their boards. I mean,
how can you not support something beautiful, brave and big and great like that? So I myself,
this is the least that I can do for them and how can I give them hope is something I
want to tell them. I want to tell them in two years, how long can you keep telling them that
it will be fine, that you know, just keep going, just keep pushing while you see how bad
the situation is getting that people are now talking about making this official. So it's
sometimes it's scary. Even sometimes you think that, okay, like hope has reached its limits.
We want action right now. But then again, even though I might sound cynical or whatever,
but deep in my heart, I have this faith that one day, one day this all will be over because
no dictatorship, no barbarism and no tyranny has lasted forever. And this was something that
happened before and these brave women got through it. So of course we are the young
generation, the new generation, the generation that has access to technology and we can use
this as a tool to connect with them, then make them feel less alone. They inspire me
and I can inspire them. So this is our way of inspiring each other, I believe,
and giving hope to each other in our own ways. They inspire me by their protests and their
faith and their motivation and love for education still, their ways of finding
ways to happiness and survival. That is my inspiration and I might inspire them
in my own words when I tell them to keep, when I support them.
Thank you so much, Saman. This was my privilege and my honor to share your story,
to share your struggle, to share the struggles of women of Afghanistan and your fight for them.
I know and hope this raises more awareness and allows people to feel even more the difficulty
that women in your country are going through and I recommend to everyone to read your books,
your poetry, and it's about feeling the struggle of other people and making a difference in this
world rather than ignoring it or talking about other things that are less important.
Thank you so much. It's my honor to have you here and I wish you and all women of Afghanistan
victory, freedom, and education. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a great and
profound and meaningful talk. Thank you for asking all the right questions. It's been an
honor for me and thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak my heart and to speak for
the girls in Afghanistan. Thank you so much. You are welcome.
