Episode Transcript
Hello, my name is Aziz, and I'm the son of a divorce mother. She is really my superhero. That's why it's important for me to support women to share their uniqueness, their personalities, perspectives, and emotions about life. Too many women in this world feel alone. They worry about the judgment of others, and they struggle with their mental health. But when they listen to the Rare Girls podcast, what empowered women share their voices and tell their stories, many women will feel inspired to live a life of freedom and to overcome all insecurities. They will feel it is a safe space to find their confidence, to remember their unique beauty, and to feel their self-worth. And they will connect with the sisterhood of Rare Girls who encourage their success and support their dreams. That's what this podcast is all about. My guest today is Tatiana Papastiliano. Tatiana is Russian, but living currently in Cyprus for almost 11 years. She has been looking all her life to find a job that she enjoys to do every day and finally founded. Tatiana works as a UX/UI design lead, leading a team of designers creating applications for real estate management. Before it, she tried more than 16 jobs and never gave up. She believes that you need to jump really low to fly very high. Tatiana has lots of hobbies, playing piano, which she started again after an 11 years break. When she did it last at musical school, learning Greek, it's her fourth attempt to do so, so far, spending time with her two dogs, a Yorkie and a Shih Tzu, traveling, her work, coding, puzzles, and learning new things. Tatiana, how are you today? Hi, Aziz. It's really nice to share my story with Rare Girls and you. Thank you for inviting me to your podcast. It's really nice to be here. And I'm very good. How are you? I feel blessed. I feel very positive and super excited to know much more about you. So I'll begin with this nice first question, which is, Tatiana, if your friends could describe your personality, what would they say about you? I can only imagine, of course. But I would say my friends would describe me as silent, compassionate, and always ready to lend, at least in the near. I value connections and strive to create a positive impact in the lives of those around me. Thank you so much. I'm really, really excited about knowing more. And I will ask this different question because I'm really curious about it. There is something about Russian women that makes them strong and resilient. And I want to know about you, what kept you going every time life was tough and hard? Is it just habit? You are used to being a strong person, and you watch your mother and grandmother be the same. Is it that you have big dreams and you refuse to live life and accepting any other situation? Is it maybe you have some kind of spiritual thinking that, oh, when you go through difficult times, you become stronger and better as a person? Or just what motivates you in a time where there are many weak people, when there is a difficulty, they just give up? My motivation is probably my mother as well as yours. I see that's why you created this podcast. Because my mom, when they had a divorce with my father, I was 10 years old at the time. And when they divorced, she started from zero. And she built a great career running the supermarkets in our city. So it was like a very good example for me, how you need to be strong no matter what. And she was taking care of me and my sister. So I really appreciate your input in my life. And throughout the life, she gave me this motivation because she said to me, never give up on what I like. And if I don't like the job I do, it means it's just not mine. I shouldn't stick to it and stay there forever because somebody said you should be there supporting everybody and give up on your dreams and be miserable at your job. If you don't like your job, you need just to leave it. There is something that will find you anyway. If you don't give up, if you go outside of your comfort zone, even though it can be really difficult on some point at the beginning, when you leave your comfort zone, it's really difficult. It's a discomfort. You should see this discomfort as a sign of the progress, to be honest, because it should remind you about great things that will happen with you. - I love that attitude very, very much. That's really the real definition of positive thinking. It's being realistic, but in a good way. And you spoke about that if you have a job and it's not yours, then it means you should keep searching and never giving up. You were living in Russia. Now you live in Cyprus. What's the story that created this happening? And how was your experience of adapting and entering a new culture that is not really 100% similar to the one that you grew up in, in Russia? - To be honest, it was some challenges and growth. But because Cyprus and Russians are so close, I would say, and they are very family people, open-minded. Open-minded, I would say, not in the topics, but two people. They are very friendly. And I really love the culture. It's like you're always in the family, cozy. You are feeling accepted all the time. You don't feel like you don't fit in. And even if you don't speak Greek, they will always adapt because the history of Cyprus is really diverse, I would say. Everybody was ruling Cyprus on some point of the history. So I would say the second language here is English because a lot of people know English. And they speak English very well. A lot of children were sent to England to study on some point because it was English colony as well. So I had no problem speaking in English. That's why maybe my Greek is that bad. Because there is always people around me who can support me in English. I was working in international companies, so the English is the main there. My mother-in-law and father-in-law speak English very well because she was actually an English teacher. And he was in the ministry, so he also know really good English. And the whole family is very friendly, accepted me as the daughter. So I felt very blessed having them by my side all these years. But it didn't happen like with many girls who's coming, that they are coming and marrying immediately. We was dating for three and a half years. I was working in tourism industry, where you could get a visa for Russian. So I can stay here working. And I didn't have obligation for sure to marry somebody. I married when we knew that it's time and we are ready to make a family that we can think we will be forever. And I hope this will be true. For so many years, it worked. I hope the same for you. I know it is as well. And I also know that you did take a very brave step. You spoke about how you went and you were working in tourism as a Russian girl and you were looking through all the different experiences and you never gave up. Often for people, when they go into a totally new job or a totally new field or learn a new language or go live in a different place, they feel a lot of anxiety. Did you deal with those experiences of feeling anxious, of feeling afraid, worrying about tomorrow too much, overthinking? And if so, what is really your advice to any other woman or the younger generation of girls who might be thinking too much, worrying too much? Some of them grew up actually and spent so many years in the pandemic that they are feeling a bit isolated and need to take care of that mental health so that they don't keep worrying about that the future is not going to be good or bright. I think nowadays, it's actually easier to change profession because of a lot of online courses and a lot of professionals providing their services to teach you how to do things. The only one thing is how responsible you are about something. So if you take responsibility and you want to learn something new, a new profession, it's actually a great skill to always learn something new, to be curious about what else can I learn. And there shouldn't be anxiety to go to a new field because even if you see professionals nowadays, the market is evolving so much every day. There are always something you're appearing. And if you're not scrolling your feed for news about your field, if you're not following all the accounts, in my case, about design, you can't be up to date. You can't be feeling like you're a professional because you are not up to date. So it doesn't matter if you finished your degree, your diploma. My degree was international relationship. So I actually was supposed to be a diplomat. But I went in ministry, and I didn't like the job because it wasn't surrounding science. I mean, I was a young girl, and the guys was there like my grandfathers almost. So it's not really nice environment to work with somebody. You can't have a common interest. It's also very important. We are talking about job that will go five days a week. It should be pleasant environment. Should be people with whom you can joke, with whom you can have common interests. You can speak about work, not like about something that, oh, my god, I can't handle it. Something curious that, oh, my god, what are the news about your field? What's new we can see in it? Is there any new codes? Is there any new designs? Do you think we can work with this one? And wouldn't be like something unpleasant to speak about. This is what makes your job more interesting. When you're curious about it, when it's not just your job, that's why I can sometimes work-- actually, a lot of times, I can work over time. And I'm not thinking about this like, oh, my god, I'm working over time. I'm curious about it. It's a project that I am interested to finish. It's a project like you do this podcast, and you enjoy doing this. This is what I've heard on one of the actual lessons of personal growth. You should think about the job that will not feel like a job. Think about something that-- what if you will be doing it every day, every hour, and nobody will pay you for this? What are you going to do? Then this is what you should do. If you find something that you could do like this, you will be paid, and people will be coming to you and asking about you how to do this. I have so many friends who's asking me all the time about the design or how to do something, because they know I can help them with this, because I know I'm scrolling all the time, the Instagram. I know the last things that you can do, the AI, what is happening, and what new we can do with the AI, and what is free and what is not. People don't scroll about this because it's not out of their interest. They can ask somebody who is really curious about it. If you like, let's say, something else, like to be a tailor, but you think it's not really a good money, at the beginning it can be. When I was looking for something in design, I wasn't looking for a good salary because I wasn't expecting it. But at the beginning, I got actually an internship for free, and I was paid nothing, but I got this internship. So I can test my skills if I can do everything what I learned, and I was actually very good at it. And then immediately, almost in a month, I got a really good job with a really good salary that I didn't even make my income lower. I actually made it better. And just in two years, in this company with no degree in design, but online courses and always into it and learning all the time new, I was promoted two times. Nobody in the company had in two years, two times promoted, and been already a design lead of actually having a team with the designers who has a degree in it. So I mean, it's all about how you love what you do. I really believe in it. If you love what you do, you are curious. I do it every day. It's not like something I do only five times a week when I work in my working hours. I'm making my skills better in different fields. Maybe in UX/UI, I don't need a lot of video to make, but I will learn it because I'm curious how to make it. Or I maybe are not that necessary to learn how to draw because for designers, it's not necessary to know how to draw because it's mostly done with the shapes. You need more understanding mathematically, I would say, how the shapes are connected and how to make something. But I like to draw, so I will draw it. And maybe it's actually helped me with the colors after all. And sometimes when we have a request about the colors, I'm really good at understanding colors because I'm drawing. So when you're drawing, you need to find the colors, the right that will match with everything. So everything you like will probably somehow fit in your job at the end. So my advice is just find something you really self-enjoy. 100%, that's brilliant advice. And I noticed something that it seems to me that people and their energy and the kind of people is an essential and important part in your life. You wanted to be a diplomat, which is about people. You spoke about how friendly the people are in Cyprus. You spoke about how you went and did not like the grandfathers who are working in international relations. And even if you think about UI/UX, you need to be thinking about people and how they use tools. I want to understand how do you view the world. Is it to you and you worked in hospitality, which is about people and in hotels, et cetera, or whatever that is related to that in Cyprus. Tell me what is the important thing that you value about people? How is your experience of people? What kinds of people give you the right vibes, et cetera? I really like to find a community. Let's say we have a Russian community here, Russian girls in Famaguste area. And I really enjoy spending time to time with them. Of course, I have my family responsibilities. I can spend every weekend, but sometimes when we meet with each other playing games or just talking or it can be any other activities, it's just enlighten the day. I think women is really nice when they have a company of women. It's not always nice. I would say so because we all know that sometimes some women can be-- when they have a power, they can be overpowered with this at work and actually manage things not in the right way for others and not creating a nice environment, not listening to people. But I'm not talking about such women now. I'm talking more about when you meet with women. It's like empowering you. It's like making you more alive, I would say, because you speak about things, you learn things, because everybody has a different life, so everybody try things. And then you can share something and something maybe more valuable to you as well, but you didn't discover it yet. So it's really nice to meet with the other women and share what you have. Talk, just talk about simple things. Just relax your mind and enjoy a nice view together, enjoy a nice food together. It's really about it. I think when we meet women companies, it's like more powerful, more-- it's like a battery that needs a charge. And in this moment, you are getting this recharging. Thank you so much for sharing that. And again, another thing that I notice about you, it seems to me that learning is essential for you in many ways. Not only is it that you keep up with AI, you said that you learn from people. Each one has a different history and life story. You're learning Greek, even though it's difficult, but I understand you are someone who needed to learn 16 jobs overall, et cetera. Why is learning important for you, and how does it make you feel? Does it make you feel safe because you understand the world? Does it make you feel excited because you're curious and growing like you said? Is it something that makes you feel more powerful and empowered because you have more things you can do? Or is it something that makes you feel you have more opportunities in life the more you learn? What is the importance of learning for you? Is it exciting more about not getting bored because you're curious? And what does it give you? What is the thing you believe for you in particular is the most important benefit from you learning? It's actually a really good question. That I have never thought about. I'm just a person who really loves learning all the time something. I just can't stand. It's like I don't even have games on my devices. I only have learning things like I have a domestic courses. I have Dowling. I have something that you need to go to this application and learn something. So I think it's the curiosity. I'm always was curious from the childhood to learn how is it to be on the other side. My first job was actually was a promoter. These people who's going with the flyers and giving on the street flyers. This was my first job and I got it at 14 years because at 14 you are getting a passport in Russia and without passport you can't work. So when I got my passport I immediately went and got a job because I was really curious to have my first salary, to have my first money and to know how is it to work, how it feels when you're working. So this was my first job. And then I continued working in different places and learning and was always curious how is it from the other side, how it feels because sometimes you see a job and you think, oh, this is a nice job probably. I think I can do it. But when you actually do it, you realize what kind of stones you have on the way to do this job. But you don't realize when you see a better picture only from your side of you. So it's always interesting for me to find something that I like. That's why whenever I like something from my side of you, I always wanted to try from the other side of you. So how does it feel to be actually in this place? And for some reason I always was getting a job. So it wasn't an issue on interviews. Of course I didn't get some jobs. It wasn't always successful. But most of the time, yes, I got a job and it was very easy. I think just many interviewers said they liked my personality and the way I'm responsible always for the job. I mean, even at my job currently, it's like the manager doesn't need to ask me what is on my plate because she knows that everything will be done. So he doesn't need to manage me or something because he knows that whatever we need to do, it's done. And it doesn't need to be taken care of. I think it's self-control as well. And I think it's all come to find something you like again. But you need to try. Without trying, you can't know what exactly you like. I mean, now I'm 33 and I found my job two years ago. It's like three years now. Yeah, three years. And it's not that much of the time that I found something that I like. And I was looking for it really long time. And I tried many things. And I tried to be a makeup artist, a coach. Even these things, I was doing a hair for Botox, Botox for Hair, Nanoplasty, and Keratin, all these things. I was doing whatever I felt like I may like it. And I was doing it the best way I can this job. So it was a good job from my side. But it wasn't satisfying at some point. So at some point, I was giving up. And something like you understand already in half a year, I understood. So in half a year, if it doesn't work for you, it will never work for you. Because if in half a year, you still feel like it's not your place, people are bad. You don't like the environment. You don't like to sit in the office. You don't like to work with these people. You don't like the job that you do. You will never like it. Stop. Just stop doing this. Just make yourself a gift and leave this job. It doesn't matter. Make-- I understand people thinking about the financial thing. And I know this from my side of you. I also gave up one job that was very comfortable. I just made a financial pillow. So I reached my financial pillow that I felt like, OK, I will be comfortable with this money for a year. And in this year, I can find something I like. So I just quit when I felt like this financial pillow is enough. And I quit. And I decided I will see what will happen in a year. And I actually had a deadline until 31st of December. And I found my job 28 of December. I was officially hired. So it was like, if it meant to be for you, it will happen with you. I love that. I have three different questions. And I will begin with one that I challenge you a little bit. You said a lot that you are curious about how it feels to be in this job from the other side or that, which means that new emotions are very exciting for you. You love new emotions and new experiences, correct? Yes, it's true. You are very curious. So you want to try new things to learn new things all the time. Yes, I love new things generally. Even in restaurants, I can't stick to one. Only if it's really good. I need to explore what new is opening. Where can we go? Anything new. I just can't stand in one place. It's really interesting. The life is so interesting. The life is so bigger than we are. We can't just stick in one place and be always in one place. That's why we have traveling. Nowadays with VZare, let's say, you can travel for nothing. For nothing. And you can pay in booking, find something really cheap. If you can't afford it, if it's really difficult for you financially, VZare, booking, find a good deals, Fridays, Black Friday. And just enjoy your life. Just enjoy. Find new experiences. It will bring you more ideas about how to live your life better. I agree 100%. And that's why I'm challenging you, because after 11 years in Cyprus, no matter how great, you seem to be someone who gets bored easily. So how come you're not bored? Because based on your attitude, you should be living in New York, in London, in Dubai, in Los Angeles, where there is always a lot of people, a lot of things happening all the time, a lot of conferences, a lot of seminars. But you are in a more of a retirement, quiet, relaxed place like Cyprus. So how does it work? Because someone who would understand your personality will think, well, you cannot stay in one place, especially that small, which is great. I'm not saying it's a fantastic place. I am saying that for you, 11 years, that means that you tried everything, basically. And so how does it work? I really love Cyprus. I mean, it's a small island, small community. But there's always something else to do. I mean, the nature is great. Where else can you go on your weekend to relax your mind and go in the nature, to go to the sea and walk among the sea in the summer to go and relax and turn on the sea? In how many places can we do this? In Cyprus, you have the cleanest sea at all. I mean, you can see the bottom on weekend when it's summer. I'm going snorkeling. It's wonderful. I mean, you can see so many fish. You are next to the turtle. You're swimming next to it. I mean, in how many places can you do this? This is my question. I think I always wanted to live in Europe when I was a child. But you're right. I was always dreaming to live in somewhere like London or Paris. I like Paris because it's a really beautiful place. When you come there, it's like the streets, architecture. It's like a piece of art, every corner when you walk. So I always thought I will be living there. But it ended here. It's also Europe, by the way. It's also in the Europe. But it's a small place. It's true. But it has everything. When I even talk with my colleagues who are in Germany, in Sweden, because we have international companies, so I work with many of them. We also have in Canada and USA the offices. So it's a huge company. And when I talk with them, in our small cypress, we have everything. We have mountains if you want to snowboarding and skiing. We have a sea if you want to go and swim. We have the cleanest sea because the cleaner sea-- so you can snorkeling and see everything clean in front of you. You can go anything. You can do anything here. And if you want to go shopping and go big, you just travel somewhere. We have airports to go anywhere you want in Europe. Thank you. I love that answer very much. And it also makes me think in a different way. You said-- and from my understanding, you feel alive when you're feeling emotions. And you are someone when you're doing something, you're learning something, you are near the turtle. You feel emotions all the time that if you don't feel emotions or by talking to people and their life story and sharing something, you feel all those emotions. So I want to understand your perspective of the world. Are you a very sensitive person in a way that emotionally, when you are the place where you are, the architecture gives you different emotions, what people say gives you emotions, you are constantly feeling and feeling and feeling. And then you want to feel more because you want to be alive. Tell me much more about this because often when you're little, that can hurt you because there can be some angry adults or you can be in a place that looks like a Soviet building and you're not so happy. I don't know what that is. And often some women, which is unfortunate, will put some walls to not feel as much if they've been hurt or they felt negative emotions when they were little. But you seem to be so open and adventurous with your emotions. So two parts of the question, tell me much more about how you experience those emotions, their importance, and what kept you open, even though I am sure at some point-- and that's why you left so many jobs, et cetera-- there were situations where the emotions that you felt were not exactly what you wanted unless you believe that you want both everything, the negative, the positive, everything for you is perfect. Yes, about the sensitivity. It's actually a problem of many people, men and women. They don't express their emotions. They hide it and strong. Emotions are there. We are created with emotions to show them. If you feel something, show to another person. Don't need to leave it until it's unbearable and then throw it to this person fully. Just in the moment, say what you feel about it calmly and explain yourself. If you want to cry about something, cry about it. The same about men. Men have tears. If you have tears, you meant to cry. It's normal. And there is nothing about this that many people are saying that, oh, if you're a man, you are not supposed to be crying because you should be stronger. It's not about this. It's about emotions to relieve it. So it will be easier for you to leave this moment, to leave this moment behind what maybe made you painful in that moment. So when you cry, you release it. So you don't feel it anymore. You will still remember the feeling, but it will be easier. So you don't need to hide from everybody. When you hide from everybody, you don't do anything good to yourself. You think you protect yourself, but you close to opportunities that may appear in your life because you are close to people. If you communicate, more opportunities in your life appear because of the people. And yes, some people are bad. It also annoys me. It also made me cry. I'm also very sensitive, but I just overcome it. I know that not everybody like this. So if not everybody like this, I am not like this. So this person is like this because it triggers something for him in me that he feels this way. He's angry with me probably because it triggers something in him. And this is why. It's not because of what I did, of what I said. And it's not about this. These people are, yes, toxic. And usually, this is what psychologists are saying. The toxic people never come to psychologists. The people who hurt from toxic come into psychologists. So think about it. So maybe they are not coming because they also, maybe, they had some issues in their life and they don't realize it. They maybe had problem with their parents somehow in the past. And it stayed with them. And because they didn't work on it and they didn't realize they need this, so they think it's normal behavior for them. But you shouldn't take it personally. Sometimes it hurts, but you should leave it alone. It's not about you. It's not for you. It's about them. It's their problem. It's not yours. You just leave it for them and continue talking with other nice people. I was fortunate in this company. It's probably the first company in my life that I came to. And it's really nice people there. All people, I was working with them for 2 and 1/2 years. And I had no issue with anybody. Everybody is so interested in their job. And they're so good in communication. They never push you down. They always say how good you are in something you are doing. So to give you these small victories that you feel better about yourself at your job, the managers are not pushing you to something like, no, you have to do this. You have to work overtime. You just feel really nice at your job. And this is how it should be environment at your work. Some people at work, the managers, thinking that if they will be pushing to people, if they will be saying how something should be done or in front of everybody, shaming somebody for their work, that it will work and they will be doing better job. It's not right. This is not how it works. It works when person is motivated to do your job. Because do you think any people actually want to spend their free time at job instead of having nice time at home on the couch? Maybe we will find a few people, which is probably not always the case. I mean, I'm exaggerating about couch position, but you understand what I mean. And if you want to motivate your employees to do their job, they should be motivated to do this like a victory. Thank you for doing this. Thank you for having this project, for taking care of this, for spending your time. It's not about money. You can't pay for everything by money. But you can pay with your good attitude to the employees that they will feel connected to this aim of yours to reach something, the goals that you want to achieve together with the team, and then celebrate together these achievements and not having it like, OK, I did it because I'm the manager. I run this team. This is not how it's done. It's done by the team together. So be close to other and closing from other people. It's closing you from good connections. There are a lot of good peoples. And the fact that you are closing yourself doesn't bring any value to yourself. So just enjoy yourself love and give the love to others. And they will bring you love. I've heard Larissa was saying in the previous episode a lot about manifesting. I totally agree with her. I think you should think in positive. Your mindset is very important. I know that people have an anxieties. It's not like anxiety about something, but a sickness in a way of illness. And I understand with people that it can be difficult for them to overcome some connection because they have anxiety about people. But you need to push yourself a bit, a little bit, every time a little bit to push yourself. So every time it will be easier and easier. You achieved one level and then a little bit more and a little bit more. Don't push yourself immediately to the bigger picture. Baby steps. And it will work. But it will be for a greater good for yourself. I love that. That's such a beautiful strategy for success. Thank you so much Tatiana. It was my privilege and my honor. It was very insightful and interesting to hear your thoughts and share your story. And thank you so much for participating in this podcast. And I wish you not only like you said about your marriage that forever and ever it will be perfect and happy, but also with your design job always growing. And thank you so much for being in this project. Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure meeting you and speaking with you. You're really good at this. Thank you so much.
