E175 Sabina Babaieva

Hello, my name is Aziz and I'm the son of a divorced mother. She is really my superhero. That's why it's important for me to support women to share their uniqueness, their personalities, perspectives, and emotions about this world. In these difficult times in human history, we need to bring the people of the world together. And when we hear the voices of women, when we listen to real lives of women from other countries, we connect our cultures without differences or stereotypes, and we get inspired by their stories to live a better life. That's what this podcast is all about. My guest today is Sabina Babayeva. Sabina is an international baccalaureate student, a Ukrainian girl from Kharkiv Oblast, currently living and studying in Tbilisi, Georgia. Sabina is planning to major in history and politics, and she volunteered as a board member on regional development in the European Youth Parliament Ukraine. She also traveled as an Erasmus Plus scholar to Kosovo and as a member of the EYP to Budapest to discuss neutral conflict resolution and active citizenship. Sabina, how are you today? Hello, Aziz. Thank you for the introduction. So I'm really happy to be here today. I'm really happy to talk to you, to talk about myself, perhaps. I guess I'm feeling great. I'm finally done with my exam session, so it feels a lot like a relief, you know. I'm finally going home for the first time since the war started. Not the war, but since the full-scale invasion of Ukraine started, because I haven't been home since February, and yes, finally I'm going there today. So my excitement cannot be exaggerated. Thank you, Sabina. And really, I can feel your emotions, and all I can say is slava ukraini. Aroy, I'm slava. Thank you for the support. Thank you, too. And I'm very curious about you as a person to share your voice and your experiences. So I'll begin with this nice first question. If your friends, the people who know you and love you most, could describe your personality, what would they say about you? And this is a good one. Thank you. It actually sounds like one of the questions of the university applications. So honestly, I am prepared to answer this one. I feel like if I asked my friends or my parents to describe me, both would agree on the idea that I'm something like a mixture of Anne Shirley and Dumbledore. I'm always out for an adventure, but on the other hand, I'm somehow worldly, and many people call me wise. I'm not sure about this one, though. And also, I feel like one of my hobbies is writing. I put a lot of my thoughts, my ideas, a lot of myself into the silence of clicking keyboard. And I feel like this hobby also somehow shapes my personality and can tell something about me. I love that. People who are writers are always so interesting, and I have at least five different questions now I could ask. I'm so enchanted and interested to learn more, but I'll begin with this. What fascinates you the most about adventure? Are you a girl, for example, who gets bored with a mundane life and you want the extraordinary and the thrill and adrenaline, and that's what excites you? Is it that you feel life is too short, we should embrace the day and not waste it? Is it because people who go on adventures with you are amazing, you learn from them so much, and it's about that human touch? Or what is it about adventure that attracts you so much? Thank you. So honestly, I don't believe there is something romantic about my desire to travel, to see more things, to meet more people. Every time I stay here in Georgia, traveling just became my salvation because at some point you just get overwhelmed with everything that is going on in your country, in your life, and then you become emotionally addicted, no, you become addicted to emotions. And so for me, traveling is one of the ways to explore myself, explore my emotions, meet new people again, and through those connections with people, through those new experiences somehow try to find the relief after hard times that you perhaps have been through. And for example, my last journey, or not last, pre-last journey to Kosovo was absolutely a game changer, let's say, because I don't know if you know about it, or I don't know if the listeners know about it, but there is a bridge in Kosovo, which separates the northern part of Kosovo from the southern part of Kosovo. And the thing is that while the north is under the, let's say, influence of Serbia, the south is under influence or soft power of Albania. And this bridge for me, when I first saw it, when I went there, I had so many emotions that I decided to, again, write it down into my diary and my metaphor to describe this bridge was like the bone of contention, the road, some steel that separates the country into two, that separates its people into two. And it was just a huge realization for me about how people can believe in different places, how, you know, when you have the conflict in your country, you can be somehow biased, you can be also losing the rest of the world out of sight, but when you travel, you just understand how the rest of the world works better, how people in different places leave. Because again, traveling allows you to somehow broaden your perspectives and realize that it's not only your country that is facing difficulties, but it's unfortunately currently it's a lot of places in the world. And if I look at it from a very academic perspective, then for me, my trip to Kosovo and also my trip to Hungary was also enriching because again, I used to be living in Belize and I think we all know that in Belize, people in Georgia generally, people are very supportive of Ukraine and the rest of the fewer people are also mostly very supportive of Ukraine, but there are still some places such as Serbia or Belarus or Hungary actually too, where Ukraine is more like ambiguous topic to talk about among people who actually live in those countries. And so for me, it was shocking to see, let's say, Russian flags all over the northern part of Kosovo, for example, or to meet Sorbs and talk about my opinion about the situation and listen to his opinion, which is completely opposite to mine. So I don't know, traveling is a lot for me. It's not only about personal quest for emotions, which I need so largely because I'm currently doing AB, which is academically rigorous. And also I'm going through some personal challenges because of the war in my country. But traveling is also about academic enrichment and trying to find new perspectives, talk to people, but not just go through the textbooks and try to understand the situation. Thank you. Hopefully it answers. Thank you too. I agree with everything you said. It's very well said. I can hear the melody, the rhythm and the creativity and the way you describe things, especially using metaphors. I have a question about metaphors, but first I will ask in a metaphorical way, how is writing to you an exploration similar to travel since it seems to be travel is an exploration of yourself, your emotions, learning through people and from people and to many writing and journaling is an exploration of oneself and dive in deeper into your inner world. Is this the same to you and what would be the difference? What is the uniqueness and flavor of each at the same time? Do both give you similar emotions of exploration? That's absolutely a wonderful question. Thank you for it. I would really enjoy to not just to answer it, but to think about it myself because I think I've never answered it to myself. Well, I would say first of all, it started with me not just trying to explore myself, but trying to explore the language. Honestly, I'm an absolute fan of English. I love writing in English. I started writing my research papers in English, but then I started writing poems also in English. And when I started writing poems, it then became not only an exploration of the language of how beautifully my thoughts and ideas can be put into words and phrases, but also it became myself exploration. So I would say it's both. How it's different from traveling or in many ways actually, because I don't know, I feel like when you travel, it's easier for you perhaps to get new ideas, new emotions, because they're just being somewhat thrown into you. But when you're writing, you dig deeper into yourself and try to get back in time, reflect on what you have already been through and then try to put it into not necessarily metaphors, but in something very, very unique. Actually there is a way the writers are using to make their experiences when they're talking about their life, their life experiences, but not just writing research paper, let's say. There is a way of how to try to make sound, how to sound more interesting, for example. So it's called or not called, I'm not sure if I can recall the name, but the main idea of the technique is to make the way how you express your idea sound very uncommon to the reader. So for example, you're trying to describe the fruit, your favorite fruit and how you are eating the fruit. And so your main purpose here is just to try to come up with some ways you have to make this description sound very uncommon for the reader. So you're talking about the process of, let's say, eating the fruit and your main purpose is to make it sound, to put it in the way like no other person would probably do it. And this is something that really excites me about writing, just trying to find new ways. But in traveling, it's more like you're just going for an adventure and you don't have control over what ways will be open to you. You're just going there and then you're meeting people. But here you're like digging deeper into what you already know, what you already have been through. I adore what you're saying. It reminds me of so many things. One of them is that the brain pays attention to whatever is unusual, to whatever is funny. Even comedy is doing the unexpected, saying things in novel ways. And therefore, when readers read, you're using that technique that will feel more joy and pleasure out of your writing and therefore they want to use it more. And I remember you spoke about exploring the language and that's how you began your fascination with writing. A lot of psychologists and linguists will argue that actually language doesn't exist. The brain doesn't process language. Everything is metaphors. Every word, like when you said dig deeper, that is a metaphor. When you said reflect, that is like a mirror where you look at something and watch the reflection. That's a metaphor to when they say, I feel stuck. That's a metaphor as well. So to you, what's your interest in metaphors? What makes them fascinating for you? Is it that you can explore after you create a metaphor, every facet of it and discover new things and learn by the metaphor you created? Or is it, again, the fact that it will be so interesting to readers that it will capture their attention and give them a sense of enjoyment, like an artistic way to express yourself? That's actually a very interesting idea that you put forward. I've never heard about it before. Well, for me, with the force, it's more like, you know, the race, the competition with my own self, because, again, getting back to what I said before, trying to put things in metaphors in language, which is uncommon, a way to make the picture in my head sound clear. But on the other hand, also unfamiliar for the reader or for me as a reader, because actually things that are right are not really made for the eyes of the others. It's like a slightly perverse act of self voyeurism. For me, it's just interesting for me to see what I can come up with than to try to impress the reader, perhaps. That's really, really interesting. And you spoke in the words that you said, deeper underneath it, I can feel a desire for challenge in yourself. Can you speak a bit more about that? Is it like I also read sometimes there are people or writers or anybody who put themselves in very difficult and challenging situations, which gives them more confidence and hope when times are difficult, that if I can overcome this, I can overcome anything, others, they love the thrill, the new emotions, it makes them feel alive when life is not boring. And that's why they challenge themselves. Writers are curious. They're like, I don't know my limits. I don't want to assume I know my limits. So let me stretch everything to the ultimate point and its limit. And therefore, I will finally know rather than guess to you. Are you a person who has a drive to challenge yourself? And if so, what is a deeper reason or a motivation for this tendency? Wow, I love the question. Again, if we're talking about writing, I will then be talking about some more, some other things. Well, in writing, yes, actually, I feel like my writing is again the way for me to challenge myself to see how far I can go. And I feel like this tendency is also common and also can be applied to my other spheres of life. Honestly, I've never talked or thought about it, never discussed it with myself. I mean, the reason behind this internal desire to be doing more, to be challenging myself. But if I think about it now, I feel like it's always been like this. Maybe it comes from my family, but I feel like I've always had this nerve pushing me into doing things better and just trying to see again how far it can get me. It actually can be applied into my academic journey and my personal journey. And I think I was talking about it the last time we met. I was talking about some spark in the eyes that appears when you are doing things that you love. And so I feel like the spark in the eyes is the way to measure your dedication. And actually, when you're doing enough, I feel like you don't have the spark in the eyes. And in my case, it only appears when I'm jumping over my head, when I'm doing more than I expected from myself. So it's like, again, it's like the quest for curiosity, for passion. I'm usually trying to do it through jumping over my head and trying to do more than I initially expect from myself. Yes, I remember the spark in the eyes. And it makes me think because it's an elusive factor or an elusive obvious, that spark in the eyes. To you, if you think deeper about it, where do you feel it comes from? Not in that cause and effect way. Is it like a spiritual kind of experience where when you're living to your purpose, your soul is shining and alive and therefore that comes through? Is it from the energy of life that when you're not just barely surviving, you're just basically not adding any value to the universe? But when you challenge yourself and push the extra mile, you tap into the energy of the universe because you're growing it and adding to it. And that translates into a spark. Or is it just that your brain is running on full cylinders, it's sparking in every way because you need that energy in order to be sharp because you're not doing the boring repetitive routine? Or to you, do you have some metaphysical or spiritual undertone to this spark in the eye and challenging yourself? I was laughing here all the time actually, I don't feel like I'm this spiritual yet. And for me, the spark is just, I just feel it when I feel extremely genuine. Well usually I tend to be, I don't know when it happened, when was the time when I turned this way, but usually in life I'm more numb with my emotions. Usually I saw a lot of things in life, I'm not sure yet, but when I'm talking about the spark I'm usually referring to the feeling of extreme and absolute genuity or sincerity and some emotional elevation that is pushing you further into doing things. Thank you. And although as you said, all or most of your writing is to yourself, it's not, it's for your eyes only, not for general audiences, at the same time, often people who like to create things that are unexpected or different or unique, they want and have this desire not to be unseen, not to be average, mediocre and unnoticeable. There is a desire to be noticed for your own individuality. Is this a part of what drives you and motivates you? Do you feel that a lot of people try to live according to societal rules and therefore they don't show their uniqueness and their soul? And to you this feels maybe like death or being a zombie and therefore you have this desire and drive in your clothes, in your studies, in your adventures, in your writing to do what is different so that you say, this is me, I am different and I do things in a totally different way. Does this resonate with your way of thinking and seeing the world? Wow. While you were talking, I started thinking about so many people I know who are absolutely amazing, who are standing out, who are remarkable but they just don't know about it or they know about it somewhere deep and maybe, actually I used to be having this thinking too, you know when you are doing good things, already doing amazing things but you're still thinking that you're not enough for the world to notice you and then you're just trying to postpone your minute of fame, let's say, and in fact then never comes because you're just trying to find the period of time when you will be absolutely certain in the fact that you are better than anyone else and only then you perhaps can show your talents, your individuality to the world but the truth is, my opinion is that this moment never comes or perhaps comes if you're extremely, extremely talented but it's more about diversity to myself when people are confident in the fact that they can do great things. They should share those things because it can inspire so many other people to be doing even, I don't know, even better or not better, just other things and in this the diversity is born and diversity is me as something really, really beautiful. I'm actually synesthetic, I used to be seeing people as colors and when I see people as colors and when I become a part of a very diverse group with very diverse interests and hobbies then, I don't know, I'm just very, again, very elevated emotionally because I see all those different individuals that are not afraid of telling the world about themselves, showing themselves, of trying to inspire others with whatever they can do or cannot do, it doesn't really matter and then my palette is just becoming, you know, my color palette is just becoming really bright and full of uncanny shades. As for me, I think I'm still partially sharing this view that I'm trying to avoid. I still want to become better, to learn how to have my absolutely authentic style. It's not only about, it's more about academic writing but not about personal writing, honestly I can see myself doing PhDs sometime later and hopefully, until that time, I will be absolutely certain the fact that I'm not just trying to, you know, get closer to those figures who are now inspiring me but that I can be doing things that are inspiring for other people. I think I am already at this point and there are people who can be inspired by me who told me that they actually are but still it feels like there is much more that I can do before appearing as, you know, an author or someone else but maybe I still should be doing some more to actually show others what I'm doing and, again, what I can or what I cannot do. I think that's so interesting that you're synesthetic and you see people as colors and you can see them as brighter based on what they do, how they feel, and how they behave. Is this kind of a superpower? Do you consider this a unique gift that helped you in some ways? Can you speak a bit more about that? Of course. Yes, I used to be talking about my synesthesia as not a superpower, not a part of my identity but more like a browser extension. This is actually something that I was writing in my university application, a browser extension that allows me to see everyone as equally beautiful because, in fact, just one color means nothing but when it's a palette full of different, even peculiar shades, only then it means something perhaps like this. Thank you. And, of course, you had a lot of emotional experiences since February 24th. You're far from your country and you heard of the full-scale invasion, of course. The war already started since 2014 or many would argue it has been going on for a long, long time, even hundreds of years that Ukrainian people have been suffering. How was that day for you? When you heard about the beginning of the full-scale invasion, how did you feel? How was your experience? What did you think? Tell me all and how did you change maybe as a person or evolve because of this emotional hardship between that time and today? Thank you for the question. It brings me back to some very sensitive memories. So as I mentioned, when the war started, I was not in Ukraine because I'm attending boarding school in Belize, and even though we had winter break because of the COVID, we had to stay for longer at home, but still Ukrainians were somehow weirdly evacuated from their countries, from Ukraine back to school one week before the invasion started. It was February 15th when I got back here in Belize. When I was leaving, when I showed the email from my school saying, Dar Sebina, you got to be back in Belize, I showed it to my father and he was very skeptical about it. He never believed that it can happen and his calmness probably was contagious and I also did not really believe much as I should have. When I got back here in Belize, there were only three Ukrainians, three people in general in the boarding, there was no one else, so I was just, I'm sorry for the sounds. I was sleeping in my room, my classmate, she was sleeping in the room close to me, she's my neighbor, and I'm waking up from a very hectic noise, like knocking on my door. I'm opening the eyes, I'm running to the door, I'm opening the door and she's standing there, she's trembling as far as I remember, she's definitely not feeling at her best. I'm trying to help her to get to my bed and then the only phrase that she says and the only phrase that clarifies everything for me is, they did it. After that, I don't remember what was happening actually, it's so, so, you know, the memories are vanishing, but it was probably the most emotional time of the year, probably, because after it you have so many questions, like that's a fact, the war is there in the territory of the entire Ukraine, your family, your friends are there, you are here, you have the survival syndrome, you are trying to fight it, but it's not working and the only thing that you are thinking about is, no, it's not the only thing, there are actually so many things that you're thinking about and all of them are revolving around this feeling of uncertainty. I think all the Ukrainians could not imagine what would happen to their country, to their families, to themselves in the first days of the invasion. No one knew what was going to happen and I also could not know what was going to happen and my first reflex was to call my parents and they, of course, they did not respond and it further refueled my emotions and my fear. That was the true fear that I felt back then, but then it was somehow, it's hard to be saying it but after some time you become so very numb emotionally, you're reading news constantly, this is your reflex to be waking up and reading news, to be going to bed and reading news, to be reading news in your classes while you're eating. I remember all the Ukrainians going to the cafeteria with their phone and eating and reading news and crying and we were like, please don't do this, we were trying to control each other but still nothing is going to change if you just simply don't read the news and it was like innate reflex, innate need to make sure that if it's bombing, it's not bombing near your house or it's not bombing where your family is at the moment and yeah, this thing that I was talking about like being numb, you still see the terrible numbers, you see the pictures but you still are tortured with all this but you don't feel it this much, you don't experience the same emotions after, for me it was like probably three or four months, four, more like four. Thank you Sabina for sharing your truth, thank you for sharing the way you experience the world, thank you for sharing both your struggles and the struggles of every Ukrainian and again, all I can say is slava ukrainiy. I am slava and also thanks to the international community, I think we're still on agenda, the world is still talking about us and this is the most important thing apart from our unity domestically, our spirit domestically, it is also incredibly important to be knowing that the world is on your side, the world is on the side of the truth and thanks to people like you and thanks to the international community generally, we still have this benefit of being absolutely certain that we are supported by the rest of the world. One hundred percent, again thank you so much for participating in this project, it was my privilege and my honor to interview you, I wish you success, I wish to Ukraine victory and I wish peace in this world. Thank you so much, thank you for the experience again, it was really a pleasure to be coming back here after I think almost a year, maybe more? I think it's more than a year and also to be noticing how I changed, how you've changed, how many experiences we've been through and how many new insights we've got, thank you for the experience. You are welcome.