Episode Transcript
Femininity is powerful in all its forms, exceptional women, rare girls must be appreciated in every
way for their perspectives, actions, thoughts, and their unique ways of being.
Rare girls are inspiring and this is what this podcast is all about.
Hello, my name is Aziz and my guest today is Amanda Nisa-Gonzalez-Mejia.
Amanda is originally from Caracas, Venezuela, but grew up in the U.S. in the outskirts of DC
in Arlington, Virginia. During high school, she was the Virginia Student Action Coordinator
for Amnesty International, president of the Latin American Student Association, and student
representative for the Equity Team, co-lead in her school's Generation Ratified chapter,
which organized multiple countrywide protests, as well as a writer and editor for an independent
student-run publication called The Vanguard. Amanda is currently studying political economy
at Duke Kunshan University, but she is very interested in behavioral science. She loves
listening to all kinds of music, hanging out with her friends, and working out. She just started
college, so she is looking forward to becoming more involved in extracurricular activities.
Amanda, how are you today? Hi, Aziz. Thank you so much for having me. I'm doing pretty well. I'm
a little bit tired. The beginning of freshman year of college has been very new, as you might
expect, and lots to take in, but I'm doing pretty good today. Thank you. How are you? I'm feeling
positive. I'm feeling lucky to be alive and filled with the energy of life and absolutely curious
about you because of your unique background, as well as you as a person. You have your own
uniqueness. I'll begin with this. If your friends could describe your personality, what would they
say about you? That's a good question. I think probably assertive, a little bit hard-headed at
times, very sociable, I think maybe funny, I would like to think. Yeah, hopefully reliable and a good
friend to them. Thank you. In your mind, what does assertiveness mean? Because there are even
trainings for employees and executives, assertiveness trainings, et cetera. It's something that a lot of
people would like to develop. How would you explain it, as well as how did you develop the
assertive attitude or side of your personality? I think I wasn't always assertive. I think growing
up as a child, I was very social and very outgoing, but I don't know if assertive was a word I would
use to describe myself. I think assertiveness comes with a certain confidence in oneself, but it's
not just confidence. I think it's being okay with rejection. It comes with assertiveness. It comes
with not confidence in yourself, but confidence in what you're saying and what you're doing. I think
goal setting is really important to become an assertive person. You can't really be assertive
if you don't know what you're being assertive for. I think being assertive is like being a force,
you know what you want to do, so you need to do this and this and this. To do that, you have to
have a goal that you're working towards. I think goal setting and having confidence in the goal
that you're setting, so having that goal for the right reasons and the right motivation, and then
being confident in yourself and knowing that you can do what you've set your mind to do. I think
that all starts with inner working of self-esteem and being comfortable with yourself, loving
yourself, all that stuff. I think goal setting is really important and also being okay and
comfortable with yourself and knowing that although you have this trajectory that you
really want to accomplish, there will be challenges and being okay with that.
Thank you. That's such a beautiful topic and it has so many facets. I'll begin with this one.
You spoke about the importance of believing in the goals you set, of having them for the
right reasons. A lot of people don't know what they want. Most people know what they don't want,
but they cannot really choose because they think, oh my God, what if I'm choosing the wrong thing?
What if it's not the right goal? What if I'll change my mind later and therefore,
they never have enough conviction behind their goals? How do you know what are those right
reasons and how can you develop conviction or confidence that you are on the right path
choosing the right things? That's a really good question. I think I,
myself, am struggling with this a little bit. As you mentioned before, I was really set on
political economy, but now I've become really interested in behavioral science. I think having
the right reasons rather than just being like, what are you going to do with your life broadly
speaking as in what's your job? What are you going to study? All that. I don't think that's
what matters. I think the underlying principle of why you're choosing what you're choosing is
what actually matters in terms of goal setting. I think what I mean is saying, am I doing something
that fits me as a person and how I want to change the world and how I want to leave my mark on the
world? Whether that be through math or physics or writing, I think it's more about why you're
getting into it than the subject itself. I don't know if that makes sense, but I think
it's more of the long-term speaking of how am I going to leave my impact with this thing that
I'm going to choose and how am I going to make the world a better place with this thing that
I'm going to choose and keep choosing for the rest of my life? Obviously, that's not an easy
question and that's not something that you can just answer overnight. If you do a little journaling,
that's not going to come to your head as a pop-up idea and be like, okay, perfect. This is what I
will do forever. I think no one is ever okay with what they choose completely. A lot of people are
very passionate about their careers, but I think it's impossible to be completely 100% into that
goal that you're seeking. Regardless, it's more about, as I said, that underlying principle of
why am I choosing this right now? How is this motivating me right now to do what I want to
leave in the world, if that makes sense? It does very, very well. Therefore, I would like
to ask about the other side, which is the self-esteem, self-efficacy, self-confidence,
which seems to be constantly eroded in this age of social media where people compare themselves
to Photoshopped people, to snippets of ideal lifestyles that don't exist all the time,
et cetera. Do you believe social media is a force for good in this world or more a force for
comparison and people won't have that self-esteem because they compare themselves to the apparent
perfection of others? And therefore, what's your whole opinion about how to keep your self-esteem
high nowadays? I personally have never found myself comparing myself to anyone on social
media. I know that that's something that a lot of people struggle with, especially young girls,
my demographic, especially girls coming into adulthood that happen to see these perfect
Instagram accounts of girls with perfect bodies and perfect lives that have money to spend on
every piece of designer clothing they ever want. And that's definitely something that's hard to
live with. And it sort of even goes to the goal setting that I was talking about. You look at
you look at yourself as this bar and then there's these girls that are three times above you
that seem to be living these goal-setting lifestyles. It's almost like looking at yourself
rather than through comparison. I feel like it's more of a, oh, I could be this, sort of a failed
potential even. And I think comparison is definitely unhealthy. I think in this day and age,
it's very hard to healthily compare. I think it can be done, but it's really difficult when
you're looking at people that are so above like socially admired standard of what we should be
when we're average because most people are average. But the truth is social media is such a lie
that it, and we forget that so often that that standard of comparison doesn't really exist
because it's pictures. It's a moment in time. It's not their lifestyle completely. Of course,
there's people that do live this lifestyle, but nothing is 100% romanticized in real life.
Nothing is 100% perfect the way it seems in Instagram especially. And I think it's so
deceiving because it's just that one picture. So I think Instagram is, or Snapchat, TikTok,
they're great ways to connect with people. I know I've gotten a lot of really helpful and useful
information on Instagram. I was able to find you in this podcast through Instagram. So of course,
the networking aspect and the social aspect is great, but that difficulty that we have understanding
that those pictures are just pictures and are just seconds of someone's life and not an
unachievable goal setting lifestyle that we will never be able to reach and rather just those
little pictures. I think that is inherently pretty unhealthy because unless we go into the app
knowing these are just captures rather than, oh, this is someone's life that I could be living
and I'm not, I'm such a waste. I think that is pretty unhealthy. And then as for the second part
of your question, which was how to work on self-esteem, I believe so. I think self-esteem
is half inner working and half outer working. A lot of people, I feel like would disagree with that,
but I think self-esteem has to do with taking care of yourself emotionally for starters.
The very baseline is definitely taking care of yourself emotionally, psychologically,
having people that you love around, loving people unconditionally as well, not just receiving,
but also giving. And also taking care of your surrounding, your physical space is very important.
I think it definitely isn't just the inner workings. I think you do have to put in some work
in organizing your life, setting a schedule, achieving goals, setting goals, very important.
And I wouldn't just say it's organization because it's not, but there is a need for organization so
that you can get where you need to be, which I feel like boosts your self-esteem when you're setting
these goals for yourself and achieving them. But yeah, I think it's a mix of everything. It's a mix
of surrounding yourself with people you love and that love you, committing to healthy relationships
and whatever is unhealthy for you, letting that go, things that you know don't do you well.
And also, of course, taking care of yourself mentally and resting, journaling, working on any
issues that you might have from your past and so on. I agree 100% self-care, as well as allowing
yourself to overcome any limiting beliefs or past traumas, et cetera, is always a way to elevate
your happiness, your ability to enjoy life without putting undue pressures or extreme perfectionism
into the equation. And I would like to ask you about your interest in behavioral science.
What's the story behind that? Why is that field fascinating for you? And tell me more.
So I've always been into personality typology, like MBTI, Mars Briggs, cognitive functions,
all of that. I'm super fascinated by the fact that we can all sort of fall into these scientific
categories of why we act the way that we act. And I've always been a very curious person. And
I think for a long time during my formative 13, 12, I was very confused as to why I was going
through my teenage years. And then I found MBTI and I typed myself and I was like, oh my God,
I'm this person. This is who I am. And this is why I act the way that I do. And then I started
rationalizing all of my behavior because of my MBTI. I typed everyone around me. I knew all of
my teachers, MBTI, all of my friends, my family. And for a long time, I rationalized all of our
behaviors and tried to nitpick, like, oh, this is why they're acting this way. And it was very
interesting. It really explained to me, it got me into the field. But now that I'm in college and
I'm learning about real behavioral science, which has taught me that MBTI might not be the most
reliable and scientific way to understand the world and understand others, I've really just become
fascinated by the fact that as a society, I mean, the very baseline and foundation of every subject
is behavioral science. Why do we want to learn about the secrets of the world? That's behavioral
science through math, physics, quantum physics. Why do we want to learn about what makes us
everything? That curiosity, where does it come from? Or why do we have a tendency to appreciate
our society above others and have collective narcissism? That's behavioral science, which goes
into political science and economy and all of our economic relations and why every country
chooses themselves above others. You know, I feel like it's just like the string that attaches
everything together. And that really, really fascinates me because it can explain literally
everything. It's a very, very new subject. It's a very new discipline in the college world and
sorry, in the academic world. And it's just kind of a mix of economics, psychology, and neuroscience.
So it's this very emerging topic. And I think that's even more exciting because I feel like
that tells me that it's possible for me to get very involved and possibly to do some real
groundbreaking research in my future in any specific subject that I get really into because
honestly, I've just taken, I'm talking all this, but I've only taken a behavioral science 101 class.
So, but I loved it. So, and I know it's something that truly makes me passionate and it's something
I've been interested in since I was again, like 12 years old. So I think it's something that I can
definitely see myself really delving into in my career and hopefully finding some really
groundbreaking information that would help people understand behavior in any field.
And behavior in any academic field like economics or international relations, which is also something
I'm really interested in and hopefully can bring some sort of peace in understanding why we have
such turbulent international relations today and how we can fix that through learning from
our own behavior. Thank you. That's absolutely fascinating. And as someone who is self-introspective,
what kind of makeup for your personality or at least for your culture that you see,
are you more Venezuelan than any other identification or are you a mix between American
and Latin American and European and a little bit of K-pop, so a bit Korean and some anime,
so a bit Japanese and therefore cosmopolitan? Or what influences shaped your cultural attitudes
as well as how would you describe them when it relates to yourself? I think that's a very
interesting question. I've always struggled with this question myself because cultural identity is
obviously something very, very big right now or every, I mean, at all times. I mean, it's like,
who am I going back to the behavioral science? I think I hate to think the fact that I'm American
in nature because I grew up in the States because I don't know, I really struggle with that identity
since I'm not legally from there and no one in my family is from there, but I just kind of grew up
there. It's a really complicated relationship. But what I'm trying to say is I think I am pretty
American. I mean, I know how many members of Congress there is in the Senate and the House,
but I don't know how many members of Congress or whether there even is a Congress in Venezuela,
which is definitely a bad thing. And I should do a lot more research of my home country's political
relations. But all that is to say, I feel pretty American, but I feel like a lot of my assertiveness
and my outgoingness is very Venezuelan. I think I have a strong personality in the States and in
Venezuela, a lot of my strong personality traits or customs are pretty normal. And I think that
definitely comes from my family. My mom is super Venezuelan and she is so outgoing and so brave and
just always on top of everything. And that's a quality I learned from her and that is very
cultural for us, but not necessarily American at all. So I think I'm a good mix of both. My
dad is also Spanish and Brazilian, so then that goes another direction. And from him, Spanish
people are very honest and I've definitely learned honesty from him, be very critical. He has a very
good critical thinking skills and I think that's also something he has given to me. And I think
that might be something that's pretty cultural as well. And then my stepdad is also American
and he's like this very kind person, always very attentive. And I think that culture of
politeness in the U.S., which does not exist in Venezuela or Spain, is also something that's been
given to me by him, which is very culturally relevant. So I think I'm like a melting pot of
all of these cultures and I really appreciate that. I'm really happy with what my parental
figures have given me to work with culturally and in terms of personality. So yeah, I think I'm like
a melting pot of everything and again, I'm really happy with that. And I hope that near the future
I'll be able to sort of, I don't know, get a more clear understanding of my cultural identity,
because right now that's just how I define it as like just this big blob of everything. But yeah,
I'm happy with where I'm at right now, just being that.
Thank you. And yes, that gives you perspective in order to understand yourself and others through
different lenses. And this gets me to ask, why did you choose the Duke Kunshan University
while you had access to education in the U.S., in Spain, in Brazil, in Venezuela or any other
part of the world? So what's the story behind that? How did you hear about it and what attracted you
or interested you enough in order to apply and choose to study there?
That's a great question. I actually got into some pretty good universities in the States and
I didn't really think of applying in schools in Spain or Venezuela or Brazil. But I think Duke
Kunshan, I think it offered me something that no U.S. university offered, which is a complete
utter challenge, like the total unknown, which is China. And China to me, although I'm not super
well versed in it, I'd never taken a Chinese class before applying to DKU. I think it really
fascinated me because it was that. It was the complete opposite side of the world,
complete different culture, language, alphabet, everything, cultural customs. It's just like this
unknown world. And I think my mom was a little sad, well, very sad I was too, but it was almost like
this inevitable choice that I was going to make to do the absolute craziest thing I could possibly
do and go to China for college and just choose the biggest challenge that existed for me at
that time. And I think we both knew I was going to do it and it was just going to be like the,
we both know me and that's just how I work. I think DKU offers a really interesting education.
Of course, there's the Duke degree and the fact that there's Duke professors, it's a Duke
institution, but also being in China and immersed with other Chinese professors,
not just Duke professors, with completely different upbringings and completely different
teaching styles, that is super interesting to me. And going and knowing or thinking that I wanted
to do economics, China is so interesting to study economics in because it's this complete,
utter different power, also a global powerhouse, but in a complete different light and way.
Now that I'm getting a little more to behavioral science, I don't know whether I will end up
studying economics or not. Probably not, but regardless, behavioral science from China is
still such a different perspective and I'm looking forward to that so, so, so much. I do plan on
going to grad school in the States. I want to go to law school, so that would be my next step.
I don't think I will be staying in China very much, but I think as a four-year journey of being
in the complete unknown and taking up this challenge, I think that just sounded like the
perfect education for me. Thank you. And I love that metaphor you used of being in the complete
unknown and challenging yourself. Can you speak a bit more about that? Why is it important for
you to challenge yourself? A lot of people, or even some psychologists will say the deepest
human fear is the fear of the unknown. So most people don't delve into the abyss of the unknown
and they don't challenge themselves that way. So what beliefs or attitudes or desires motivated
you and encouraged you to jump into the unknown, go to something totally different, totally far
away and to challenge yourself that much? And what about most people does not push them out
of their comfort zone that far so that they would do the same? I think what it is about me with
challenges is that I feel like I'm a very growth-oriented person and I think challenges
are really the only way we can grow. I feel like what you said about people fearing the unknown,
I think it's a fear of change, it's a fear of destabilization, but I think stability of anything
is so scary. There's so much more. We only live this one short life, such a short life in the
scope of Earth and the universe and all these existential thoughts that come running down our
head when we think, well, what are we going to do with this short life? I think the only way to
really fulfill all of the potential that we have, which is so much, regardless of who you are,
we have so much potential as human beings, is to challenge yourself and to challenge where you are,
who you are, who you surround yourself with. That doesn't have to be a physical or place challenge,
like I was saying with China. It can also just be mentally thinking, why am I here? What is my
purpose in doing what I'm doing right now? Again, that can be with anything. That can be with who
you're surrounding yourself with. If you find that where you are and who you're surrounding
yourself with and what you're doing right now to move yourself forward is okay, and if that's
stability for you, that's completely okay. If that's the trajectory you want to follow,
that's completely okay. I think personally for me, I always want to grow more. Sometimes that can be
a negative. Sometimes it can be a good thing, but that's just how I find myself working.
Challenges, regardless of whether they go well or they go wrong, they teach you something as
well. They don't just have to be for growth. You can learn from them. I guess that's kind of
where I'm learning something, but you can stay where you are having learned a lesson from trying
something else. They don't always have to be these huge life-changing events. They can also just be
thinking about how you're doing and critically looking at what your track is in life.
I think we're very comfortable with just staying where we are because that's the safe option and
that's just how we're used to being. Especially in America, we're just taught to go to college,
get a job, get married, settle down. You're done. You're done. That's life. That, to me,
is the opposite of what I want. Of course, there's people that want that and of course,
that's totally okay, but I wish we could ask more of ourselves because there is so much more within
every single one of ourselves. I think it's just trying and making life worth living,
which again doesn't have to be insane. It can just be questioning where you are and whether
that's really where you want to be. Thank you. You spoke about making life worth living.
To understand even more, do you enjoy the thrill of new emotions, of taking risks,
that if you're not pushing yourself outside your comfort zone, you feel bored and therefore
new emotions, extreme emotions are important and essential for you to live life? Are you more like
a girl who loves telenovelas and all the drama and wishes to live a life of adventure, excitement,
and drama in a mix of that Brazilian culture and the Latin American and the Spanish? Or
you're not like that. It's more about intellectual curiosity and growth in a more stable way.
I think it's the latter. I mean, I like watching dramas, but I don't think I get bored with
stability. I think it's just complete stability doesn't necessarily intellectually stimulate me
in the way I'd like to see myself in the future. And yeah, I don't think it comes out of a place
of needing extreme emotions. If anything, my life is pretty relaxed. I mean, I go to sleep pretty
early. I have my nighttime routine. If anything, I tend to take really good care of my personal
peace. I think it's more of like, I want to see myself trying my best. I want to see myself trying
my hardest and working the hardest that I can, of course, with breaks and resting because resting
is just as important as working. But I think it just comes out of a place of wanting to see
myself do my best and taking care of myself the best that I can. And yeah, and just being in a
place where I'm satisfied with the work I'm putting in. If anything, extreme emotions tend
to really throw me off track and like, well, of course, you know, drama once in a while is,
you know, fun and keeps things interesting, but definitely not as a reoccurring thing. I don't
think I can live with that. But yeah, I think also drama tends to be very unwarranted, I guess. Like
it just happens with life. But yeah, I think it's definitely the latter. I think I just I want to
know that I'm trying my best. Thank you. And one final question to understand even more. You're
now in Barcelona in Spain. How would you compare the people there to where you grew up in Arlington,
Virginia? What's the difference between like an American woman and a Catalan woman? Because I
don't know if they represent the Spanish culture or not. In Barcelona, it's more the Catalan
culture. How of your own perspective, since you tended to analyze people and their personalities,
I'm sure you tended to notice the similarities and differences. What would you say?
I think as a whole, the Mediterranean tends to be a lot more honest and living day to day. I love
that. I think it's so nice that there is no underlying concern of like, oh, there's like
kind of the opposite of me, which is like always thinking about, oh, what am I going to do next?
Like, what do I have to organize? Like, how do I get here? Here, living is very, it's very normal.
It's very, I guess, just day to day. Like you, you go out, you have a coffee, you go to work,
you go at lunch with your friends. I think that is also so important. Like having sometimes just
having a normal day where you just do what you want and, and relax is so nice and so relevant
to our mental wellbeing. In Virginia, in Arlington, Arlington is right outside of DC. So it's all of
like the governor's kids and like, it's a very, tends to be pretty upper-class. It's very redlined,
so it depends, which is also a sad thing about Arlington because we have such brilliant minds,
but the resources there are very divided between people, upper-class people and lower-class people.
But the truth is in Arlington, everyone is extremely competitive in terms of schools and,
and work and, oh, what internship am I going to score next? And, oh, what's your LinkedIn?
Give me your work card or your business card. So here it's a complete 180 from that. It's,
it's very like, oh, let me drink a little sangria, maybe take a break and then go back to work.
It's very nice. It's, it's completely different. And I think obviously there's,
people also worry here and people also think about what they want to do next here. I'm not saying they
don't. I think it's just a different way to live life of just enjoying the moment and, you know,
being okay with where you are. And, and, and yeah, I think there is a different level of anxiety
that exists between Barcelona and Arlington, very, very noticeable different levels of anxiety from,
from, from all those concerns of what am I going to do next? All this stuff. So I, I think it's so
fun being here. And if anything, it's, it's teaching me that it's also okay to take life day by day
and that you don't always have to be reaching for more, which is as you've probably understood
something that I could very well learn from, but yes, so that's my answer.
We all could learn more from that. Thank you so much, Amanda. This was my privilege,
my honor, such a wonderful way to understand you, to have different perspectives and a new way to
think about things that matter. And I wish you success. I wish you a wonderful four years study
in behavioral science and everything you wish for in China and do Kunshan University. And I wish you
that balance between being a go-getter and relaxing and having a good siesta once in a while.
Thank you so much. God knows I could take a little good siesta right now, but yes,
thank you so much Aziz. This was so, so, so nice and made me think a lot about myself. I'm definitely
going to do a little reflection after this. So yes, thank you so much for having me on.
